Why You Still Feel This Way Even After Everything You’ve Done to Heal

Kathleen Flanagan (00:02)
Hello everyone and welcome to the journey of an awakening spirit. This is Kathleen Flanagan and I'm your host and today we have Katrina Collier in the room and we are going to talk about her debut memoir, The Damage of Words and she shares her 12 year healing journey detailing her recovery from narcissistic childhood abuse, complex PTSD and self-loathing.

She explores diverse healing modalities, past lives, DNA level trauma, and her high sensitivity and spiritual gifts, offering research-backed insights and hope to inspire others to transform pain into empowerment and reclaim their worth. Welcome Katrina.

Katrina Collier (00:46)
Thank you for having me. feel very honoured to be here.

Kathleen Flanagan (00:50)
Yeah, I mean, this is a topic that I talk about all the time. And I think going into a little bit deeper because you bring in things I don't necessarily talk about to like, the DNA. Yes, do I heal people on a DNA level? Yes, I can do that. Do I talk about it? No, I don't talk about it. But you know, and the self loathing, I mean, we all know that that's part of it. But just the whole thing of just really going into the various healing modalities, because it's not just one that got us where we are today.

Katrina Collier (00:56)
Mm.

Hmm. No.

Mmm.

Kathleen Flanagan (01:21)
And it's a lot and I've been doing a lot of thinking about that. So I want to turn this over to you about your journey of becoming an awakening spirit and we will go from there.

Katrina Collier (01:21)
No.

Sure. I mean, it was quite a journey. I was actually listening back to your podcast with Catherine Giovanni. Mine was so different. was like completely, she was new. I didn't always know. So it was really, I started dealing with my childhood trauma from this life when I turned 40.

I fell into healing, a big reason I've written my memoir. said, please don't fall into healing, please choose it. ⁓ And I started working on This Life. So I a lot of This Life stuff and both Michelle and Laura, who are the first two healers I worked with, were very much sort of introducing me to the universe and energy and what you attract and all that kind of stuff. But it wasn't until I met Monica, who I met at the Pilates studio, randomly, who has a very...

serious job over here, but on the side was doing all these courses in angelic Reiki and healing and mediumship. And she would use, well initially was using music guinea pig and then cause I started paying it cause she was so brilliant. ⁓ And it was, she would talk about stuff and for some reason I wouldn't think she was insane. I've been listening to this going, I really should think she's in a stra, like belongs in a straight jacket, but somehow I know this somehow.

This sounds familiar. Somehow I don't. And there were all these moments that made it seem real. So we were sitting in a restaurant having dinner one evening and this man came in and he was so agitated. You know, when someone's like, and you can feel their vibe and she dropped her head for a second. he was so like vibing so weirdly that I had a pain in my shoulder. Like it was, was very strange. And she dropped her head for a second, looked back up and I went, what did you do? Cause it had gone.

I'm like, okay, what was that? And she said, I just asked Archangel Michael to put us in a golden dome of protection. I'm like, okay. And so she just sort of made me intrigued. And that started me on my way. where she was studying at the College of Psychic Studies here in London, I thought, well, I'll go let me go and do a grounding protection course, for example. So I did that and

I mean, then I felt art change and Michael's like, okay, okay, right. Okay, I'm starting to believe. And it was sort of like this slow journey of sessions with her, experiences of my own, ⁓ moments like I was walking in the fields with my dogs and I'd done one lap, there was nobody else in the fields. I did one lap and I'm like, right, you're real, prove it to me. And as I came around the second loop, there were two balls, two pink.

balls, one a pink tennis ball, which to be honest, I'd never seen until that day, sitting underneath this particular oak tree that I have a real affinity for as I, okay, okay. And then after that, it was just this willingness to immerse myself in it and trust her direction. ⁓ She introduced me to beautiful stepping stones through a Greenwich here where time starts in London. And I started doing past life work with Lorraine Flaherty. And just, it was like that.

And I just gradually, gradually opened. But what I hadn't realized, and actually it was very interesting listening to your conversation again with Catherine when you were talking about the Claire audience. I hadn't realized I was Claire audience. I knew I had Claire cognizance. Like I knew I had a very strong knowing because I just know stuff. And it's like, I knew my ex-husband was going to have a car accident when he did. And my mom had that as well. So it was like, okay, this is familiar.

⁓ But I didn't know about the Clare audience ⁓ until I was in Australia catching up with some people and I met somebody new and I was very drunk and I do not recommend anybody do this ever. This is bad thing to do, but I was very drunk and I started saying what was going on in my head and I was channeling his sister and I had no idea she was dead. I didn't even know he had a sister. Like I'd literally just met this person, but it was so, it was crazy, but.

again, alcohol, you know, I've actually stopped drinking because I just like, I don't trust myself not to go too far and then and say stuff I shouldn't. ⁓ But it so it was from that and then it just evolved. I just kept working with people healing stuff, healing all these past lives. And then I started working with the amazing Isabel Gatherer, who's my spiritual coach and mentor. And she really helped me.

to really open up my gifts fully, to trust what I was hearing, to ascend to the fifth dimension, all those sorts of things. ⁓ And also actually to bring the book through. Because I'd been told by a couple of psychics, you're gonna write this book everywhere. And I'm like, really? Okay. And I've been told I'm gonna speak in arenas and go, okay, not about recruitment, like about what?

And it was then it started, you know, they brew, don't they? Authors know they brew up and you just got to get it out. And it was like, but what is this? Isabel helped me birth. And she has basically been my birthing partner of getting the story out. And it's really funny because I'm, I'm known as this very professional person who works in the world of recruitment, encouraging people to treat people better through the hiring process. That's my date, but there's this whole other side.

But what I found is now the more I talk about it, the more I find there's lots of people who are remembering that their soul's having a human experience, but it's just, we've got it separated. Actually, it was a bit like when you were talking about wearing the crystal, I was laughing. You went into it with a crystal on and nobody noticed. Nobody said a word. But it's like how I spot spiritual people like, crystals. I'll go talk to them. But yeah, was, so it's been this long process. ⁓

Kathleen Flanagan (07:12)
I know, right?

Katrina Collier (07:23)
But I sort of always feel like I'm coming out of the closet, if that makes sense. Because I've got these gifts, I use these gifts, but I don't tell people I'm using them. Unless I go, I have a message for you, do you want to hear it? ⁓ But I don't do it on a professional level, like, you you're doing, obviously, so.

Kathleen Flanagan (07:42)
Well, I know that what people don't know, and I'm gonna share this for once, is I'm gonna tell people that generally when I do the show, 90 % of it's being channeled through. Yes, it's my experience, but I'm also being channeled. And there are times, and I know nobody sees it, and I look at the replay and I go, okay, how I look at what was going on up here were two different things, because when they're talking to you,

Katrina Collier (07:44)
That was a lot. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah

Yeah.

Kathleen Flanagan (08:08)
You think

you're like babbling or something because they kind of pushed you aside and you don't even know it. But see what they do now is they just put these goosebumps all the way up and down my legs and arms like they're doing right now to let me know like, and they're laughing. They're having a good time with this because it's like, yeah, we want you to do that because it's about surrender. It's about trusting what you know. But it wasn't easy to get here because

Katrina Collier (08:11)
Yeah.

Mmm.

Yeah.

Yes

Nice.

Kathleen Flanagan (08:38)
when you live in the world that we lived in, especially back in my day, this was not something that was ever talked about. mean, I remember when transcendental meditation came by and it was like, woo, that's a woo woo. And we didn't even have the word woo woo yet, but it was like, you're doing what? I mean, it was like, that was transcendental meditation and it's such a mainstream thing now, but it was a big deal when I was coming up.

Katrina Collier (08:42)
Mm.

Mmm...

Yay.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah

Kathleen Flanagan (09:07)
And

because my mother was getting into it and it was because of that that I got into that Edgar Cayce meeting where I had my first experience of meditation, which was the thing that saved my life. Because if I didn't go, I wouldn't be here today. And it was what opened my mind to there's got to be something more than what's going on in here because I was suicidal. I didn't want to live. And my mother knew she was like

Katrina Collier (09:14)
Mm.

Mm.

Yeah.

Yeah. Mmm.

Kathleen Flanagan (09:36)
I don't know how to save her. And so that was what my mother was observing but felt helpless. And there's so many more stories behind that whole thing. But the whole point was just realizing that this, was crazy. She was a crazy lady and she laughed through everything, through tragedy, through stress. And it wasn't until both my parents died where I really accepted.

Katrina Collier (09:38)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mm.

Kathleen Flanagan (10:06)
that

they suffered from everything you're talking about, the self-loathing, the PTSD, the trauma. I mean, they both came from abusive homes and they never talked because that was the silent generation. And so what did they do? The gift they gave me was all of that, yep.

Katrina Collier (10:10)
Mm. Yeah.

Yeah, that's so.

Stiff up a little.

Push it down, push it down. Yeah,

we'll just pass it on. You know, even through the vibration, you just pass it on to everybody around you. Yeah, I mean, I haven't really talked about my childhood, but in a nutshell, my mother was a covert narcissist. She died just in November. And she was extremely emotionally and physically abusive to the four of us. But I'm sharing my story. It's, you know, it's...

Kathleen Flanagan (10:29)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Katrina Collier (10:52)
my sibling story isn't mine to tell. And I have spent basically 12, 14 years recovering from it, healing from it, letting go of it. Loads of it is past life stuff. ⁓ my God, we've had so many lives together. And a real fight ⁓ between us to bring a particular light through actually, which has got, was released just after she died. I finally won, 14 lifetimes. So we've been at it a while. And it's, so I chose this life with it again. ⁓ So.

Kathleen Flanagan (11:21)
But to heal and release it, right?

Katrina Collier (11:22)
Mum had a lot of

to free this light, this particular, yeah, it's out. I see it dancing. It's just dancing across the world. It's so wonderful and very needed. ⁓ Very needed. So Mum had a lot of instability in her childhood. Her father went to war, World War II at a really vulnerable age. He also didn't believe that her brother was his child. So he was beaten. Mum was put on a pedestal. So Mum's narcissism started then.

Kathleen Flanagan (11:26)
Yeah. Yeah.

Katrina Collier (11:51)
⁓ Her first husband also killed himself, that didn't help. So there's a whole load of tragedy that left mum to be that way. My father, bless him, ⁓ born in 1929, his mum died ⁓ in 1935 when he was six ⁓ and his father spiralled into poverty. So he had to give my dad and his sister up for adoption. And the people that adopted him were extremely brutal.

And my father actually legally unadopted himself when he was 15. But again, we knew nothing about any of this. That was all, as you said, silent generation. mean, genuinely, mine were right in the silent generation. Push it down, do not talk about it. And it was interesting writing my memoir, because I read about how if you suppress anger, which he did with Valium, you get heart disease. And I went, that was my dad. That's exactly what he did. But honestly, when he died in 2022, I was quite thrilled.

People will be like, what? I'm going to talk to you now and you're going to bloody listen. Because I had so much I wanted to say. He didn't, I had forgiven him for not protecting us. I understand why he didn't, but he did not give me a clear path of communication to him. There was always a shared email or if I called and mum was in the background, he wouldn't speak properly. He would just go, so what have you got to tell me? And I found those words damaging.

because it was like, we're not having a two way dialogue here. This is, this is weird. So actually when he passed, was like, right, those Clara audience skills are gonna come right into it. And I just, yeah, I let rip. It was, it took me 16 months before I'd let him speak. I had a lot to say. It was surprising how much bubbled up. But that's where I think when you do remember who you are and you remember that you're here and that you, you know, your souls and

It's easier when someone passes. Like it was just that feeling of, okay, you know, now we can have a different relationship. Like I do feel him around. He's let me know he's around. He sent me signs. He keeps appearing as a blackbird quite a lot. So.

Kathleen Flanagan (14:01)
Yeah, and my

father needed to die, my mother needed to die, they really did. And my mother said, I don't have any issues with dying. And I'm thinking, yes, you do, because you're not leaving and you need to leave. mean, when she was in hospice, they were like, I don't know how your mother's living, still breathing with the lung capacity that she does not have at the moment. And I said, because she was terrified because she knew where she was going. I knew where she was going.

Katrina Collier (14:07)
Mm.

Mmm.

She was terrified of the life review. Yeah. Yeah.

Kathleen Flanagan (14:31)
And she

was, she was absolutely terrified of it. And, you know, so the joy about the gift of hospice, and I learned a lot, ⁓ they kill people. I mean, it's the humane death, like how we put, and that's what, and it was beautifully done. was, you get to have the quality time, you get to say what you need to say, even if she could say it or not. They kept her coherent until the end. It was like, bring everybody in.

Katrina Collier (14:35)
Mm.

Mm.

Mm.

Hmm.

Kathleen Flanagan (14:58)
We'll have a celebration of her life, whatever she wants you can have. And so what do we bring in? Baileys and chocolate. Because that's what my mother was, that was my mother's, get me Baileys for Christmas. And I don't know how fast she drank that, but she never had any Baileys in the house when I would go over. So.

Katrina Collier (15:02)
Yeah.

Wow, that's a rich end.

Wow.

I would drink that very fast.

That's my bad one. I would totally drink that one. Yeah. Yeah.

Kathleen Flanagan (15:21)
Yeah, but it was just so funny that it was like, wow, this is really interesting. And then she passed and it was just an

interesting experience. And then when my father died, I knew he would die and nobody would be there for him. And they weren't. He had alienated the entire family. I mean, his entire family. And my sister said that, I mean, we had a conversation about it the other day and she said, she just told him, why don't you just die already? Just die. I mean,

Katrina Collier (15:35)
Hmm.

you

Kathleen Flanagan (15:50)
you're holding on for what reason? And it was again, think it was that and then he finally, I think he heard those words and he did. Now I had my own experiences after their death and I'm not gonna go down that road right now because it might freak people out just a tad, but I understand it. But the interesting thing was when my... no, they're not there. No, they're like in... No, no, no.

Katrina Collier (15:53)
Yeah.

Mm.

Have they gone into the light or have they stayed? they stayed. ⁓ That's annoying.

Kathleen Flanagan (16:19)
Their lives are questionable right now. They're questionable because they seem to be inseparable. As much as my mother hated my father, she was right there. Because they showed me when he passed over, they showed she was right there, so happy to see him. And she's like, I wouldn't see that son of a bitch when I, you know, I mean, it was just like, no, she hated him. And it was like, no, no, that's not going to happen.

Katrina Collier (16:31)
Yeah.

that's bizarre. no.

Kathleen Flanagan (16:46)
And so when my father couldn't do what he wanted to do, he dragged my mother back in. so they're questioning, because they're in rehabilitation and my mother came out of rehabilitation. My father comes in, I'm like, she's just a dry junkie. That was how I viewed her when she said I came back. But he manipulated her again, because they're not of the light in my opinion. And so the question is, because if one dies, they both die. Yeah.

Katrina Collier (17:01)
Mm.

Right. All right. Wow. But then I'd have to go into it, see that.

Kathleen Flanagan (17:12)
I mean, there's a lot of things about death that people don't understand that I've been given the gift

Katrina Collier (17:13)
Interesting.

Kathleen Flanagan (17:17)
to see. And I just shared it with my sister, is the only one I've ever shared it with because it's not ready to be heard. But you know what? The whole point was is I understand because it was almost like at the time of my father, when my father died, it was almost like the timeline of my mom and dad opened up where I understood this lifetime with them, because I knew my other lifetimes.

Katrina Collier (17:24)
Yeah.

Mm.

Kathleen Flanagan (17:40)
I just didn't fully understand this one, but I knew that this was my last lifetime with them. So the depth of the grieving was about, I'm never gonna see them again, and that's by choice. I'm walking away. And so there was a totally new level of grief, and there was a forgiveness element that was like, where did this come from? Because I was elevated into understanding.

Katrina Collier (17:46)
Yeah.

Mm. Mm. Same.

⁓

Mmm.

Kathleen Flanagan (18:07)
that it's not the human form, it's the spirit form. And I saw sitting at the conference table, so to speak, in the etheric world, signing the contract of what we were gonna do for each other. I mean, that was really weird, it's like I actually signed a contract. I mean, it was like, you know you do, but when you see it, it's like, okay, there's some real stuff here going on.

Katrina Collier (18:09)
No.

⁓

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

That's what I loved

about the work with Lorraine Flaherty, who I always pronounce her surname incorrectly. hope she'll forgive me. Flaherty. Anyway, ⁓ I will give you the spelling for the show notes. But we would look at the Life Between Life contracts and we would rewrite them.

buy toys from her all light, you know, and mum and I had a learn love from hate contract, which had been going on for thousands of years. And we went back to that life that we just had not, we had not learned it. And that was just the beginning. I mean, there were just so many.

⁓ that we had to clear. And it's funny, you you're about damaging words, they're all damaging words, they're all very heavy. There was very rarely anything that was just like, you're going to learn joy. It's just, it's always this, know, you're going to start with hate. And it was, you know, in this life, mum recognized myself as I came through. But similarly, working with Isabel Gatherer, we,

I felt like I stepped out of brambles. It was really interesting. There was so much locked between mum, dad and myself and all these, you know, oh, okay, I went to say thousands, went to correct myself and heard no thousands, thousands of lives together. And it was just, I stepped out of the brambles and they went, oh, hang on, I'll fix mum and dad. And they went, oh, no, I won't. Oh, no, no, no. And I've never forgotten that feeling of just going meh, not my stuff. But actually, isn't it funny how you felt it?

It made you have a level of grief. just gave me a level of elation that I will not have another life with them, that I have done everything, that it's cleared. In fact, I've made it very clear I'm not coming back. I'm done with my Earth experience. Apparently I've been here from the beginning and I'm just like, mm, mm. I'm not checking out until I'm 100 and something, but I'm not coming back. like, I will do what I have come here to do.

Kathleen Flanagan (20:20)
yeah. yes. yeah, me too.

Okay, well you and I will be hanging out together

then. ⁓

Katrina Collier (20:34)
the end,

like I'll have outlived everyone, but I'll still be here and then I'm done. I'm going elsewhere. There is elsewhere, wherever that is. I believe Earth is the toughest experiment. So thanks. I think I'm done. think I've earned my stripes. I'll go be a new soul somewhere else. So but yeah, I feel I feel it's really interesting though. I know. I definitely know my parents went into the light. I did some work to

Kathleen Flanagan (20:45)
I think so too.

I think so too.

Katrina Collier (21:01)
like help dad drop some of his bags of karma before he went. And I asked him to take his mother's hand because I could feel his mother and his sister and his dad there. Or dad was dying in the other side of the world. Now I don't know if it made any difference. It felt like it did. But I said, take a hand. He was so scared to die. And I think he was scared of the consequences like the life review. ⁓ But he, he did take a hand. ⁓ His father was standing further back, which was sad.

I hope they've had a chance to sort themselves out over there. But mum died really like that. She basically, she'd had a hip replacement, which she'd somehow talked them into doing at 87. And then she should have gone into a hospice, but she chose to go home. And she just got up to pee in the middle of the night. And as she stood massive brain bleed, she was just gone. She was literally gone before she hit the floor. ⁓

Kathleen Flanagan (21:54)
Wow.

Katrina Collier (21:57)
And then my sister didn't find her until the next day again, which I also think is quite good because by then mum will have been in the light. So she's watching how we reacted, which anyone who's seen, you know, I've been talking about this in the press about how elated I feel because I'm not the only person. And I think it's really important that people are okay with other people being, you know, happy their parents have gone. ⁓ That at least mum will have looked on it with compassion at how, you know, we reacted.

⁓ My sister and I had a lot of very warped humor over it. You trauma humor, I like to call it. Yeah, it's real. She and I have a lot of trauma humor. And yeah, we were very, I mean, we were shocking. If people had heard us, they'd just be like horrified. But that's one, it's a coping mechanism. Yeah, yeah, exactly. ⁓

Kathleen Flanagan (22:32)
Mm-hmm.

It is real.

But it's how we survive. You know, it's like, it's what we know. It's not healthy.

We don't know that yet. So how do you you cope? It's a coping mechanism that we had developed. And is it sick? Yeah. But you have somebody who understands it. So it's not like you're the crazy one here. Now my family, most of them are in denial. Now my sister was telling me some of her story. I mean, I heard some things this past week.

Katrina Collier (22:54)
Yeah, I have no plans to lose it. Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm. Yeah.

Kathleen Flanagan (23:15)
that I didn't even know and I wasn't even in the house anymore because I was 18. But hearing stories that I didn't even know and I'm like, well then what was the deal with this? And she said because she felt guilty. was like all of a sudden I'm starting seeing like a whole new level of my parents, ⁓ of just the abuse factor and it wasn't just me. I mean, they went after everyone.

Katrina Collier (23:20)
Mm.

Yeah.

Mm.

Yeah.

Kathleen Flanagan (23:42)
I mean, it

was just amazing. then finding how prolific the liars are in my family, at least a sibling and a sister and a brother, and the denial because they're like, well, we had the best childhood. like, what planet were you on? Because there was no such thing as a wonderful childhood when we were all fighting for our lives.

Katrina Collier (23:48)
Mm.

You are not this one. It's re...

Yeah, it's really interesting with narcissism as well. It's, you know, that ability to gaslight and crazy make is quite something else. But what we were trying to work out, so because my sister and I've been talking about, why are we empaths, not narcissists? Why are we gone that part? And pretty well, I would say all four. Why haven't we gone the narcissism route? Because it'd be very easy to.

And we don't really have a definitive answer, but it's quite interesting. But I think the most traumatic part, I mean, definitely my eldest brother was absolutely beaten the most and it sort of lessened as she came down to me and I was the baby. ⁓ But I think the emotional abuse is almost harder. that.

crazy making of your reality and making everything about them. So you basically you give your entire self to them to create some form of safety. ⁓ And then they tell you but you didn't. But I did. Because as you then become an adult and then you start to realize it as I started healing. I mean again I didn't I fell into it at 40. But as I started being given the terminology and the understanding and I could see how the behavior was how I was being manipulated.

⁓ And then you see all the times that you tried to call them out on their behaviour and they tell you, you're lying. Like big, big stuff. Apparently I've since read this is quite normal, but when I got engaged to my first fiance, I've actually been engaged twice, but I only married one of them. We went over, showed mum the engagement ring, and then she called me later to tell me how nauseous she felt at the hypocrisy of the fact that we were getting married.

Kathleen Flanagan (25:27)
Yeah. Yeah.

Katrina Collier (25:49)
when we were living together. And that's how she felt when she saw my engagement. And I caught up on the floor in the fetal position and sobbed, like sobbed. And that was one of the first times I started severing contact. There's been so many times until I finally went enough. And when I told her that years later, she said, I never said that. Why on earth would I make that up? Like, how does that benefit me? Like it just doesn't, you know, and it was just that.

that she could deny such a thing and deny so many things or say so matter of factly, which she said to my sister again. ⁓ So when she found out my memoir had come out, she was like, really randomly, it was published on my birthday. And that's the day she looked at my Facebook. I've been talking about it for like all the time before, but anyway, on my birthday, she discovers it and she's messaging my oldest brother and telling my sister, was I a bad mother? They fobbed her off somehow.

and then she sort of said a bit later on, I, know I brutalized you and your brother, but Katrina didn't get much. No remorse, no regret factual like statement. What are we doing with that? You know, and it's, and I think that's the, I'm just sure you've experienced as well. That's the really tough part of it is that they're telling you it's not abuse when it is abuse. And you almost have to prove to yourself it's abuse before you can heal.

You have to really, well I had to, accept it. And that took many years to really go, no, this was a, this wasn't, you got smacked around a bit because you're a seventies kid, you know. No, this is abuse. And now here's your behavior because of it. And now you need to do something about it.

Kathleen Flanagan (27:20)
yeah.

Right, because if it wasn't abuse, we wouldn't be on this long healing journey and we wouldn't be carrying rage and anger and showing a face, putting a mask on saying, hey, look at me, I'm so wonderful. Look at all the accolades and you're suffering and dying on the inside. I mean, that is abuse. And I think about, you know, when I confronted my mother on things and my mother was so good about, I don't know, there was just so much. That was my mother. you know, yeah, just ever so much.

Katrina Collier (27:37)
No. Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm. Mm.

That's what she'd do, yeah.

And that was dismissing her behavior or your dad's behavior?

Kathleen Flanagan (28:03)
And then I had to

Hers, this was,

well, she was representing, I think, the family dynamic. So, but see, then I heard another part of the story that I never knew anything, because my mother had lied profusely. Now, I knew when I wrote my books, my life was a lie. I don't think I understood to the degree of my life being a lie. And then my sister tells me all this stuff, and I said, you know,

Katrina Collier (28:13)
Mm.

Mm.

⁓ wow.

Kathleen Flanagan (28:34)
I remember at 40, I was thinking, know, there's two sides to the story here on, you know, there's mom's side, there's dad's side, and somewhere in the middle, there's a truth. We never learned the truth. My sister knew the truth more than anybody, and she finally shared it with me. And I said, you know, at 40, I knew there was something more going on, that whenever, because my mother was like, she just hated my dad, and she let the world know it. She let us know it. She never liked any of our boyfriends or our husbands, but then,

Katrina Collier (28:39)
Mm.

Yeah.

Mm.

Hmm.

Kathleen Flanagan (29:03)
when we did have someone, then she tried to take them from us. I mean, there was a sickness in my family because my mother did it to all of us. She went after our men.

Katrina Collier (29:05)
Alright.

Mmm.

But that's, she had child,

maybe sexual abuse? That there was child abuse there.

Kathleen Flanagan (29:19)
I don't know

about, I know there was domestic violence. My grandfather beat my grandmother. know a lot about that. I'm not sure on the sexual side of that, but I know my father was sexually molested. So, you know, and I'm sure my mother probably was, but I don't know who the perpetrator would have been because to me there were signs. There's a lot of signs that I think there was. That's what's coming in now. And they never shared it.

Katrina Collier (29:22)
Hmm.

Yeah.

No. Gosh, it's a lot.

⁓ Yeah, because of the way that

the way she behaved. mean, it reminds me a bit. Have you ever seen the addiction tree?

Kathleen Flanagan (29:54)
The what?

Katrina Collier (29:55)
The addiction tree. The one I see is on 12 step philosophy. And I just think it just beautifully explains so many of our behaviors. And she's doing a little bit of love addiction, sex addiction behavior, which comes from a core wound of shame, victim victimizer, low self-worth. like I had love, well, I may still have love addiction. I haven't dated in a long time, but it's a behavior that's built from that core wound.

Kathleen Flanagan (30:16)
you

Katrina Collier (30:20)
And that comes from that earth that they use, is, you know, things like abuse, neglect, bullying, you know, there's so many things that can cause it. Instability in childhood. I mean, I know I've healed my core wound. just haven't jaded. Because now I want a partner. You know, there's lots of projects out there. Look, I want someone else who's done the work, you know. So that's what happens when you heal. You're like, yeah.

Kathleen Flanagan (30:40)
but that's a good, but see, that's what happened. But I wanted to change.

Well, that became the challenge because when my partner showed up in 2008, when I went out and wrote the books and stuff, it was, he was like, my God, there's like a real human being, not the things that I used to attract, right? And I'm talking male and female. I had no problems of always bringing the, you know, that codependent kind of relationship with my female friends as well as the males. I was always the one that was being beaten up. Yeah, I mean, I was so unworthy and desperate for friends.

Katrina Collier (30:52)
Mm. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yes.

Yes, ⁓ yes, work. Yeah.

Kathleen Flanagan (31:18)
I would just be like, okay, whatever, I'll do whatever

you want to, you know, and I'm not a people pleaser by any means, but when you're lonely, you'll do just about anything. And so when I met him, I was like, okay, first of all, why are you free? Cause you should have been caught a long time ago. And then I realized it's like, my God, there's like hope to me. He was a sign of hope because it's like, I just want to be a better person because there was somebody

Katrina Collier (31:25)
Mm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Mmm. Yeah.

Kathleen Flanagan (31:47)
that I could look to that was actually in a crazy place, but he was still happy. And I'm like, I don't even have happiness in my life. I mean, it was like, I'm having to learn how to play again and have fun because that's the other thing when you're traumatized, you forget to have fun because it's work, work, work, put your head down, onto the next, onto the next. And he helped me to play again.

Katrina Collier (31:51)
Mmm.

Mmm.

Yes!

You don't know how to play. Yeah. Or play,

play. Oh my God. So there's a, there's a chapter about my Labrador. Um, you know, I remember going to puppy class and you having to go, name was Lance or Lance, Lance, you know, was having, oh, oh, oh, couldn't do any of it. You know, fine. You'd find me lying on the floor playing with the dog. You know, it's just, but it was so hard because

It wasn't even so much the be academic, it was the, okay, I'm playing, am I being, because I'm a highly sensitive person, mum was also highly sensitive, or was. ⁓ So, you know, am I being too loud? Am I, you know, just making this, am I going to get into trouble for this? Because honestly, you could get into trouble for breathing with her, it was ridiculous. So it was, I never, I was never relaxed when I played. ⁓

maybe at school, certainly, even at school, I would have been concerned that I was going to get into trouble because the trouble at school led to more trouble at home. ⁓ So it was learning. Yeah, you're right. Learning to be free and learning. And I think that's why I loved. So.

Michelle Zeller, who's my first life coach this life, she connected me to my inner child. And then I did work with Laura Boland and then actually all the spiritual work has always included my inner child and right through to Isabelle. ⁓ And that was like learning to love her and re parent myself and play and know, color outside the lines and you know, do stuff like that.

Katrina Collier (33:42)
Hello.

Kathleen Flanagan (33:42)
Hi, I am not sure what happened there. It's like, it just froze on my end and it looked like you're coming in. So I thought, okay, let's just do a reload on because I couldn't, I couldn't leave. It was frozen on my end too. So I apologize. This is the first this has ever happened.

Katrina Collier (33:55)
⁓ No, I reloaded several

times. I've checked my internet all as well, so I don't know what happened, but it doesn't matter. And it's still uploading, so.

Kathleen Flanagan (34:03)
I know, so was I. That was so weird. what I'll do is even though it's live, I'll

cut everything and bring it together on another version. I know, technical difficulties some days, it just happens. What do you do? And this is a first time for me. this is like, hmm, interesting. Well, now I know how to fix it.

Katrina Collier (34:10)
That's all right. Sorry, anybody listening live. ⁓

Yeah, it was alright.

Well, I just kept

reloading reload the page is usually what I do. just

Kathleen Flanagan (34:28)
And I saw that too and

so I thought, well, I couldn't leave to reload. So I just did the command R to reload and here you are. Okay. So let's finish because we are coming close to winding up, but yeah, let's go ahead and finish what you were saying because you were starting to make a real interesting point, whatever that was. I don't remember.

Katrina Collier (34:36)
And here we are, while we're back.

I know, sorry about that. ⁓

What was I say?

Kathleen Flanagan (34:55)
I don't remember. I think we were talking about our parents and the trauma that they have gone through and what they were giving to us as far as bringing that, oh, the lies. I think part of it was the lies that we were experiencing and then how we survived the lies and, oh, bringing in a new man.

Katrina Collier (34:55)
I never made

Mm.

Mm.

Nice.

Oh, yes, that's right. You were talking about your partner and him not being a project. Yeah, no, think that's I just genuinely. Yeah, I just genuinely think that there are there's a few partners around there are and when the time is right and to be honest, I can sense him, but he's been around for ages. It's just a case of actually calling him in and I just haven't. I think I've been so focused on birthing my memoir and because

Kathleen Flanagan (35:23)
Yes, exactly a project.

There are a few.

Katrina Collier (35:48)
I haven't written it for me. It's sort of a vanity project. It's a, please, heal your stuff. Let me show you what I did. This is just, and I have written it all out, the weird, wacky, the wonderful. And if it inspires one person, I will be so happy. And I know it's already working its magic because I hear people tell me that they bought it and it sparked an idea. And I just, I just wanted to put words, you know, particularly for anyone who's been through narcissistic abuse, it's that.

like the words and the way my body proved it. We were talking about play, weren't we? You know, that's a sign you've had trauma. And then I'd have particular pains in my body where I'd been defensive for years that, you know, came through kinesiology and, sort of just like proving it, which sounds weird. But I just think you need to do that when it's narcissistic abuse. And then it's please heal, like please try something.

Kathleen Flanagan (36:20)
Right.

Katrina Collier (36:41)
You know, even if you don't believe what we're talking about, that's okay. I didn't initially either, you know, I just, over time, was so much evidence. ⁓ wonderful.

Kathleen Flanagan (36:41)
and it'll play

Yes.

And I went back into ballroom dancing. That was what got me to play and have

fun and express all the things that I loved as a kid. I got to do all of that and I didn't realize, it was, and trust me folks, ballroom dancing is not easy. It is so much easier to be an independent dancer than having a partner because it's his energy, your energy, and then the couple energy and learning how to weave all of that together. But it was such a beautiful gift for me because as

Katrina Collier (36:57)
Yeah.

there.

Yeah.

Mmm.

Kathleen Flanagan (37:20)
as hard as they pushed me and I wanted them to push me and I told them to because I wanted to be a champion dancer and I would grumble at them but I wouldn't let them stop and I said, if I'm grumbling, who cares? Push me harder and they did because I was always happy because they could see and I remember one of my instructors once, said, he never recommends anybody to watch their video before they're ready to go on stage or do a competition.

Katrina Collier (37:24)
Mm.

you

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Kathleen Flanagan (37:50)
and I read mine and everything he had told me that I couldn't see or feel in my body. I watched, was like, I saw every bit of it. And he says, you're the only person I know who could take that kind of, to do that and not get all messed up in your head. I said, I want to be a good dancer. Now this is part of that unworthy, I want to be the best thing. Yes, was a paradigm playing? Yes. But it was a paradigm for me because this was something that mattered to me. And so that was,

Katrina Collier (37:50)
Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Interesting.

See,

Kathleen Flanagan (38:19)
That was so cool!

Katrina Collier (38:20)
it? Because that's from, but it's from love and play and joy and that helps you love yourself. And so it's funny because you say that and I think about I improved as a speaker by watching myself on video. If someone had said, oh, you um a lot, which I still do. Um, I probably wouldn't have got it. But when you hear yourself backing, you're oh, you really do um a lot. But it's that.

But no, I think that's a great way to learn. Is that funny? He thinks that people get up in their head. To me, it's that, yeah, yeah. They don't understand why we humans are so serious, do they? They don't get it.

Kathleen Flanagan (38:49)
Yeah, but playing is because spirit wants you to play. They want you to play. you know, when you don't have play, no.

no, because how many times did I, they would do something and I'd be like, and they're laughing. They're absolutely laughing. And I'm like, you get your butt down here and you tell me how easy it is to live on this planet. And they're laughing. I mean, they're rolling on the floor laughing. Okay. That's how I saw them.

Katrina Collier (39:08)
yeah.

Yeah.

Absolutely. Yeah.

Kathleen Flanagan (39:18)
And then it was

like, oh, oh, you're so funny. Because what they were trying to do was get me to lighten up, that if I would just lighten up.

Katrina Collier (39:23)
Hmm.

okay. sorry,

this wasn't your trainer showing you video. This was the divine showing you images.

Kathleen Flanagan (39:31)
no, this is

back in the 90s when I lived in Nevada. And they were like teaching me how to play because I was so stressed and holding so tightly on something. And they're just trying to get me to lighten up. And the minute I lightened up and started laughing and going, you guys are really funny. I got what you just did here. It was like everything shifted at that moment because it was about you need to play, just play.

Katrina Collier (39:35)
⁓ sorry. I misunderstood.

Mm.

Yeah.

Mmm. Yeah. Gotcha.

Yes, yes.

Kathleen Flanagan (39:58)
And that word was a foreign language to me. It's like, play? I don't even know what you're talking about.

Katrina Collier (40:02)
⁓ Yeah,

because play wasn't safe. Play was if you if you let yourself go, which is what you're doing, isn't it when you play, you're not caring, you're just having fun and not worrying about what you look like and how you're behaving and you're just having fun. It's you're not safe when you have abusive parents when you when you could be in trouble for. Yeah.

Kathleen Flanagan (40:07)
Right, it wasn't.

Well, and my mother beat me one time. I remember her beating

me. was playing with, and she came up and beat the hell out of me. like, we're just playing. We're just playing. That's all I said. Because I did not know what triggered her to do that. So to me, play was dangerous. You don't play. Not in my house, because if you play, you get beat.

Katrina Collier (40:35)
Yeah.

Mm.

Yeah. Yeah.

Interesting. Wonder why you chose that in your life between life with that contract, you went, no play. I will learn play from no play.

Kathleen Flanagan (40:49)
Yeah, so...

And what's the one thing that I reconnect? Yeah. So what's the one thing

that I'm learning to do is like, I want to play. I wanted to play my whole life. I came down here to play with life and I played, but not the way I wanted to play. So now I'm learning how to play. So yesterday when we were at lunch, when I had to pick up some money for this water heater,

Katrina Collier (41:06)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yes.

Hmm.

Kathleen Flanagan (41:24)
The Supremes come on with baby love, my baby love. how I need you. I sat there and took and I'm in a restaurant and I'm doing this and my hips are going and I'm singing it to my boyfriend. ⁓ And he's just laughing. My business partner's there. He's like. I've never seen this side of you. It was the funniest thing, but it was at that moment, like all the stress of.

Katrina Collier (41:28)
Yeah.

Mm.

I hear you.

Yeah.

Kathleen Flanagan (41:53)
this whole water heater going out, I've just started to play. And then it was like, I would hug him and it's like, I need you. And then we afterwards, when we got home after dinner, I said, you know, I really, I said, I'm getting the Supremes again. I'm going to get that because I don't know what happened to my CD that I had or taped up tape. And I said, but I said, I really do need you. And I have never needed anyone in my life, but I do need you, but not in a sick dependent way.

Katrina Collier (41:55)
Yeah.

Mm.

Kathleen Flanagan (42:22)
but as a support because all he did was just sit there like, God, here she goes. And he's not used to that. And he thought it was funny. And he says, but you really do need to know how to play. So he let me play. And if he was embarrassed, he still let me play because he says, you so need that in your life. And I'm like, wow.

Katrina Collier (42:23)
Mm. Yeah.

Yeah.

Good.

But it's not even a let

me, he just watched you. It wasn't even a let you, you allowed you. that's what a partner would do. They would just support you doing that. So they're not.

Kathleen Flanagan (42:47)
I know, but see, to me it was a let because nobody's ever let me play before. And to me that was like, yes, exactly.

Katrina Collier (43:01)
giving you permission, they're just supporting. It is funny, I know what you mean. I came out of ⁓ Orlando airport and to be honest, I was just quite thrilled there were no issues getting through customs because it could be a bit scary at the moment. And I cruised through, up into the, waiting for my Uber and there was music playing. And I'm bobbing away, you know. And I just look around, I'm the only one doing that. But the music was so loud and so good and I just thought I would never have done that.

before I'd done all of the healing. And actually one of my dog walking mates around here has caught me out in the supermarket before singing away to the music that's on and he's come suddenly up to me and gone, hello. It's been so hilarious. But it's that joy. And I think it's really funny when we talk about the whole, you know, the awakening, which goes hand in hand with the healing, you know, you do have to.

Kathleen Flanagan (43:42)
I know.

Katrina Collier (43:55)
heal this life and if you can go heal all the past lives and everything, because to me they were a big part of it. But that joy and that love of self, and I just think once you have that love of self, you will go and sing just outside the airport in Orlando and not care and you know, dance and just not care. And I think there's such a freedom that's come from that.

Kathleen Flanagan (44:17)
Yeah, because I didn't care.

It is a freedom. And that's what

I think that's the greatest joy. And that was a sign of true healing for me is that I just let myself go. And what was it? This is a song. Yeah. Yeah. But it was because it was like in this restaurant, they kept playing songs of when I was like, I don't know, 10 to 14 years old.

Katrina Collier (44:29)
Yeah. Yeah. So you let yourself, he didn't let you, you let you.

Yeah.

Kathleen Flanagan (44:47)
And that

was when all the damage was happening, but it was like there was still that element of joy. And it was like, think the life I have was not what I expected, but there was a joy in the music that that helped me to navigate. During some of the darkest moments of my life as a child, because 18 was a long ways off at 14, you know, and so I think that's what that.

Katrina Collier (45:00)
Yeah.

Mmm.

100%.

Yeah. Yeah.

Kathleen Flanagan (45:15)
What that did was it was like, I've just kept hearing of this helped me to survive. It played a very strong role. And so to be able to sit there and be in the restaurant and start singing of all things, singing the song, you know, cause it's like, whoa, okay, Kath, what are you doing? It's like, this is fun because it's the Supremes and I love the Supremes then.

Katrina Collier (45:18)
Mm.

Yeah. ⁓ 100%.

Mmm. Mmm. Yeah.

The divine do

you love using music?

⁓ think it's funny because a lot of people talk about the clarity. Actually, I heard a video the other day. say if you have ringing in your ears, I've never had ringing in my ears, but I definitely have two way conversations. I don't. I have two way conversations and occasionally popping, but never. But, I was in a taxi, I think I was, Berlin and the driver was crazy. And, I remember much ringing in my head, like art change from my club. don't think you're going to have to take care of me here. And the next song that came on was don't worry, be happy. And I just.

Kathleen Flanagan (45:52)
I do.

Katrina Collier (46:13)
laughing I was just like okay thank you I know I'm okay in the best way I know no and so yeah it's I find music quite a lot music lyrics that just keep suddenly from nowhere going around around in my head all right okay here we go what's this about yeah it's fun I love it

Kathleen Flanagan (46:17)
Yeah, they deliver messages in the best way, don't they? The best way. You can't beat the way they deliver messages.

I know, right?

Well, we're

out of time. So Catherine, I want to thank you for coming on this show. This was a lot of fun, definitely a different spin, but you know, the joy, even with trauma and we got on the other side and we can have fun and be a crazy people. You can say, that's just a crazy old lady, but you know what? I'd rather be a crazy old lady than a stuff shirt anymore. I've been that too long.

Katrina Collier (46:41)
at time. Thank you.

Yeah

Absolutely.

That's okay.

Well, or an unhealed

victim of trauma. I'd rather be a healed crazy lady than an unhealed victim of trauma, which is what I was. So I'm glad you've been on the journey.

Kathleen Flanagan (47:05)
Right.

Yep, me too. So tell everyone how they can

get a hold of you and your book and whatever you do.

Katrina Collier (47:17)
Yeah, so I'm in Google me I usually come up quite easily. So Katrina Collier that sounds dreadful, doesn't it? But I'm quite vocal, so you can find me quite easily. ⁓ But also, yeah, I mean, Amazon or wherever you like to buy your books online, the damage of words. And it's really, it's not a misery memoir, it really is about my healing journey. There is a chapter about my childhood and a few about how I proved to myself that it was trauma. And then

Kathleen Flanagan (47:24)
You

Katrina Collier (47:46)
how I healed and including the spiritual and all of the awakening and all the weird, wacky and wonderful as I like to say, because I think that's the best part. That was probably some of the most healing as well. So I've just written it out and all I want to do is I just want to inspire people to heal their stuff. Don't carry it. You don't need to carry it. It impacts yourself and everyone around you. Let it go. Let it go.

Kathleen Flanagan (48:08)
Yep,

I agree with that very much. If you all got any value out of the show, feel free to like and subscribe and we can notify you in the next show. Also, I do have a school community, so if you want to join the community, it's free right now at I Am The Light Sanctuary, forward slash about, and you can learn more about what I do. Also,

I think that's pretty much everything at this moment. And of course, my books, Dancing Souls, is my journey of an awakening. So I'm sure we have very different healing adventures, but it sounds very similar adventures. it's, you know, we're gonna reach the right people. who Catherine, Katrina goes after, and who I go for are two different people because of our energies. And there's a beautiful resonance with that. So.

Katrina Collier (48:53)
Yeah.

Mm.

Kathleen Flanagan (49:00)
There's no reason not to heal when there so many healers out there who are willing to do the work that have done the work and can show you the way. So you don't have to be alone in this process because it's a painful process and it can be very lonely. So I will see all of you next week, Tuesday at 4 p.m. Eastern Standard Time. And from my heart to yours, I hope you all have a fabulous week.