The Real Reason You Can’t Let Go (It’s Not Weakness)

Kathleen Flanagan (00:02)
Hello everyone and welcome to the journey of an awakening spirit. I'm Kathleen Flanagan, your host and I have Catherine Giovanni in the room with us. And we are talking with Catherine. She is a three time award winning bestseller author, speaker and one of the original founders of the independent concierge industry. She's the author of more than a dozen books including her latest, The Ultimate Path to Forgiveness, Unlocking Your Power.

Catherine's journey is one of extraordinary resilience. She's a stage three breast cancer survivor who overcame a traumatic childhood and those experiences now fuel her mission to help others heal. Through her work as a transformation mentor and intuitive, Catherine empowers people to release guilt, shame and emotional blocks, guiding them toward lasting freedom and self-awareness.

Today she's here to share powerful insights, deeply human stories and transformative tools, especially around the power of forgiveness that just might shift the way you think about healing and about yourself. Welcome, Catherine.

Katharine Giovanni (01:10)
Thanks so much for having me Kathleen, I appreciate it.

Kathleen Flanagan (01:12)
Yeah, no worries. I can't wait for this conversation. It should be a good one. So I'm going to, what we'll do is we'll start out with just you tell everybody a little bit about you and your journey of becoming an awakening spirit and we will watch it unfold from there.

Katharine Giovanni (01:28)
Okay. ⁓

trying to decide how much to say and how much not to say. I have been clear audience since the beginning. And I was raised in the 1960s and 70s and the society had a very peculiar quirk back then. If you even so much as exhibited an ounce of intuition, they'd put a sticker on your forehead and said, she's crazy as a bed bug.

Kathleen Flanagan (01:36)
Go down the road.

Katharine Giovanni (02:01)
and they give you medicine and pop you in the funny farm with a straight jacket. You think I'm exaggerating. I am not. So everybody that was intuitive back then, we all kept it to ourselves. I hid what I could do and I wish I was joking. I am not for 40 years. And I originally hid it because I just was hearing voices in my head and I'd ask a question and I'd hear the answer in my head and...

Imagine my surprise in grammar school when I discovered I was the only one that could do it. And they wouldn't give me the answers to test questions. It was mildly annoying. It doesn't work that way. And I very quickly learned that I was different than everybody else. And I was terribly bullied. Badly. So because I didn't want to get stuffed into a locker and I didn't want my family to put me, to give me medicine, which would have changed my, my life's course.

Kathleen Flanagan (02:36)
You

Katharine Giovanni (02:56)
I just didn't tell anybody anything. And I kept it a secret for years. And that's kind of how it started. I mean, over the years, I've learned to be clear-audient, clairvoyant, clair-sentient, empathic, and probably one or two more. I started out as hearing, but I used to give people readings all the time, and I would flip the language.

So they wouldn't know what I was doing and how I got my information because I didn't say anything. But I'd say things like, you know, have you ever thought about or you know, what would be good for you? Here's a wonderful out of the world idea. I bet you haven't thought of this one, that kind of thing. And when people called me out on it, I just laugh it off and say, here's the experience. It wasn't years of experience. I heard it. I just didn't tell them what I was doing. So that's kind of how I became the intuitive that I am today. But remember, I

I spent 25 years knee deep in the corporate world and nobody knew what I was doing because I didn't say anything. But I'm not the only one. There's bunches of us out there who kept really, really quiet and probably still do today.

Kathleen Flanagan (04:06)
I agree with everything you said because that was everything she said is true. It was my life exactly. I'm the same way. And I remember I worked in the legal field and of course, you you dress to the nines in the legal field.

Katharine Giovanni (04:18)
you

dress to the nines and you don't tell them what you can do in the legal field. That's death if you say it.

Kathleen Flanagan (04:25)
And one day I got brave and wore a crystal around my neck. Do you know how much stress I was in all day, but I wanted to come out of the closet? If anybody noticed, they didn't say a word.

Katharine Giovanni (04:38)
No, because I wouldn't. Yeah.

Kathleen Flanagan (04:39)
No,

but it was just one of those things that I'll never forget getting off the elevator, knowing I had this crystal around my neck and I'm wearing this blue knit dress. You know, I'm in the nines, honey. And I'm thinking, and I had other gold chains around, know, so I can kind of like camouflage it. No, that didn't work. But it was, I just remember how

Katharine Giovanni (05:00)
⁓ huh.

Kathleen Flanagan (05:07)
scared I was of coming out of the closet, so to speak. And then nobody said anything and then it just slowly, you I wore it every day and nobody said anything, but that was the extent of how brave I got. So I do understand that, but I...

Katharine Giovanni (05:11)
Yeah, it was.

But you're scared

you're to lose your people are going to call you crazy. You're scared. I'm an onto I'm a serial entrepreneur and I've had a lot of businesses over the course of my life. And I thought when I came out of the intuitive closet, I would lose all my clients. People would point and laugh and I'd hear crickets chirping. And

Kathleen Flanagan (05:41)
That didn't happen.

Katharine Giovanni (05:42)
It well admittedly some of it did, but that's because I retired from one industry and I started a brand new one. They weren't chirping because I was intuitive and they were chirping because I was on a new road. But when you first come out of the closet, you're really, really scared. You're scared.

Kathleen Flanagan (06:00)
⁓

I think I had very shallow breathing for a very long time because I was fine until that elevator door opened. I mean, I can still see it to this day when that elevator door opened and I'm like, God, I just have to go around the elevator to the office. You know, it was one of those. So I mean, to me, but I wanted to be brave. You know, I didn't want to hide that.

Katharine Giovanni (06:06)
Yeah, well my family thinks.

Yeah.

Kathleen Flanagan (06:27)
part of myself anymore because I really was part of that. It was part of who I was because I always knew what was going on. I mean, the same time I came out with that spirit actually told me this was really interesting. They said that I went to a psychic back in those days because, know, some days you just didn't know and they wouldn't tell you and they knew they shut up for a reason. And then I go to the psychic and they say, well, you're not supposed to know. And I'm like, why am I paying you money then? Give me my money back.

Katharine Giovanni (06:57)
You do wonder when you're on time.

Kathleen Flanagan (06:57)
because I already know I'm not supposed

to know that's why I'm coming to you. I mean, was like to me, it was a common sense thing, but I remember a psychic at this one time, they decided they were going to talk to me. The psychic said, you're going to lose your job. I was so shocked because I'm usually really good about this stuff, right? And there was no sign, no sign. And I'm thinking, okay.

Katharine Giovanni (07:14)
Wrong answer.

Kathleen Flanagan (07:25)
I'm gonna trust this because it hit so hard in my heart that it actually jolted me. So I ended up getting another job and I felt so bad about doing this. during the last two weeks of being there, his wife called me and said, I am so grateful you did this. We didn't wanna fire you, but we knew we had to because...

just because of the economic situation, he worked with his dad, Ray was finally retiring because he was having too many strokes in the office. I mean, was just, it was time. And I did that. I mean, he was the longest lawyer I ever worked for, five and a half years, you know? But I just remember how bad I felt and how shocked I was and so grateful that I listened to someone because I didn't get that information.

Katharine Giovanni (08:20)
Universe, if the universe can't get you to listen inside your own body, they'll get you the information. You'll get flat on your back and sick and you'll get the information or you'll be in the mall and you'll see something. They'll get you the information.

Kathleen Flanagan (08:21)
And normally I do!

We can go down that road, let me tell you.

You have a way with you, Catherine, that you have said things to me that have not, that have wormed their way in, okay? So I'm already starting this walk-in thing going on, but we're not gonna talk about walk-ins just yet. But what I am gonna talk about is Thanksgiving, right before Thanksgiving, my sciatica went out and I didn't know why. So I knew I had to stop.

And I was grumpy because when your sciatica goes out, you're flat on your back and there's nothing you can do. So I did all this icky, icky, yeah. And it was all this icky mundane work that I needed to do that I would never have done. And thank God I had the opportunity to get it done, because I would never have done it. And it was like right after Thanksgiving, my hip got better and all of a sudden I'm like.

Katharine Giovanni (09:15)
I've had sciatica, it's painful.

It's very painful.

Kathleen Flanagan (09:37)
running 100 miles an hour, I started a community, I started really putting my courses together. I was doing like all this stuff and I'm like, choo choo choo choo going down 100 miles an hour. December 29th and 30th, I had to go to Wheatland, Wyoming to do a periodic surveillance for one of the school districts we work for. Tuesday morning, my sciatica went out. And I'm like, I have a half a day's worth of work and a two hour drive.

Katharine Giovanni (10:07)
Bad timing.

Kathleen Flanagan (10:09)
And I'm like, okay, what is this about? So of course I'm flat on my back and I'm like, I don't know what this is about. my whole entire, I'll tell you what I got out of it. So I'm flat on my back again. I'm really grumpy and it took 10 days for this to recover. And I mean, I'm like, my nervous system is dead. I mean, I am like dead. Once I get rid of the pain, I am so physically exhausted. So

Katharine Giovanni (10:17)
What's it trying to teach me, you know?

Kathleen Flanagan (10:38)
Spirit had the kindness because you told me that there's an entity working his way in, which I know who it is, and he is working his way in. And from, he came in right after the sciatica was healed and he left when the sciatica came up again. So in that five weeks, I had done so much work. And even though I was managing my energy to the best of my ability, holding this intense energy that he is,

I still went down. So now he's slowing, he's slowly coming back in and I'm like, okay, I'm getting what's going on here now. So Catherine, you told me this and he's letting me know when he's coming and going. Now I said, we don't have to do pain anymore. We don't have to do it.

Katharine Giovanni (11:10)
Sure.

Yeah, you might want

to that conversation with them saying, know, yeah, there's other ways to do this.

Kathleen Flanagan (11:28)
Yeah,

yeah, there's other ways to where we can we can do this. And I've just sat there and thought, OK, so in the process, I also know there's other things going on within my body. Right. So Sal finds its doctor. We're getting taken care of and we're starting this program on Thursday. So his stuff is in. Mine comes in tomorrow. And we're starting this where it's a 90 day thing. Isn't that an interesting number? And.

Katharine Giovanni (11:53)
That's great.

Kathleen Flanagan (11:55)
And I'm thinking, and this is all supposed to just get rid of all the density in my body, all the parasites that are in my body, viruses, whatever creepy things are living inside my body. But see, I needed him in to like really let me see what was going on because all this happened during that period of time when Dorian was in to let me see like, okay, so we're trying to get this body healed so I can get this energy frequency. Cause you know, parasites and things like that are not good in your body.

So I just thought it was rather interesting. So he's now starting to talk again.

Katharine Giovanni (12:31)
You know, there's people don't realize that there's so much to the world that we can't see. We can't hear it. We can't touch it. And the stuff that we've been taught now we have to relearn a whole different paradigm. And what we've been taught, some of it was true. Some of it frankly was bunk. And it's a question of keeping your, keeping your mind open because

Answers come from deep down within you and you know on the surface of it. That's a platitude Okay, answers are inside of you and you know, I get it Well, no, they really do because what you're doing is you're tapping into your higher self You're tapping into your soul. If you will you're tapping into a higher version of yourself You can call them cut Tom Dick Harry God sue. I don't care what you call it You can call it your higher sub you can call it the angels. I don't care You're tapping into source

And we were taught as kids, at least I was, that only special people can do that. But everybody can do it. Everybody can do what I do. It's nothing special. Everybody on the planet can do this. Everybody.

Kathleen Flanagan (13:42)
And it's true. And I know that when you get into alignment and you get in touch with you, where you really own you, you start making that connection for the body, mind, spirit, soul connection. But I think for me, when we did, when I read your book on forgiveness,

I think that brought a whole new level because I even started getting an insight on the walk and we're going to go down this road a little bit now too. So I'm just going to blow all this away because this is fun. I get, so the walk-in thing has been really upfront and because I

Katharine Giovanni (14:12)
Yes ma'am.

You might want to explain

what a walk-in is for those people in the back who don't get it.

Kathleen Flanagan (14:25)
come on, let's, I'd rather

keep them confused. A walk-in is I made a contract with the version of me before me. So this little girl, and I mean, she was a little tiny girl who was very badly abused. Now I would witness this because I started to realize like the things that I would see weren't me, but I understood them to be me also. And the other thing that I noticed

And this is a contract. is like, there's no penalties for doing this because you're saving a body for somebody else to come in and do something else. And we're getting out because maybe the circumstances changed during this and this child couldn't take it because she was suicidal. She wanted to die and she was.

Katharine Giovanni (15:11)
Or sometimes they're suicidal, sometimes they've completed whatever it is that they were here on the earth to complete and they wanted, so to speak, die and go to the other side. And because we're on the front lines of something really great, everybody in the universe wants to be here. And I apologize in advance for saying it this way, but that's how it was told to me. There was a body available.

They don't want to waste a body, so to speak. And I was told that this is very common. People just don't know about it. So she was, she wanted to leave and another soul came in, took her place. And it takes about six to eight weeks for the new soul to acclimate to the body. Memories are exchanged as one soul goes out and another one comes in. Sometimes the contract was made before we even came here. Sometimes it's Johnny on the spot. There's a weird saying.

And sometimes, you know, sometimes it's because while I'm about to commit suicide, okay, so you can leave, I'll come in. And the new soul, well, maybe you liked coffee before and now you like tea. Maybe your favorite color was pink and now it's blue. You know, there are gonna be differences, but there are, and you know you're, you probably won't remember your entire childhood. There's gonna be gaps. That's the first flag that you might be a walk-in.

Kathleen Flanagan (16:28)
I don't.

Katharine Giovanni (16:33)
is if you've got memory gaps and I, you know, if you can't, if there are big parts of time when your family's like, why don't you remember this? Okay. Well, you probably don't cause you're a walk.

Kathleen Flanagan (16:36)
Yes.

Yeah, I don't remember anything from my childhood and I knew that I need, I was like, if I can get past eight, well, it was actually 11, but I couldn't get past that. But I saw her life and I had readings about her life that I didn't yet know about. So as, but what was interesting is what I wrote about in the anthology about my waking up process from my father when I, when he had beaten me and I felt it.

Katharine Giovanni (16:59)
Right.

Kathleen Flanagan (17:12)
Well, what was interesting, the day before he died, this book went to publication. Day after he died, day after. And I remember reading it because I had to give the final stamp of approval on the chapter. And there was a part in the bathroom when my father walked in and all of us girls are taking a bath. And I saw the bruises and I looked up and thought, how could you do this to your little girl? And at that moment I split.

That's when I came in.

Katharine Giovanni (17:44)
Yep, you're not always asleep, you're not always dying, you know, sometimes it's instantaneous.

Kathleen Flanagan (17:51)
And it was at that moment because I could feel like a lightning bolt come in and sever. mean, that was the visual that they gave me at that moment. And what was even more interesting because I always wondered, why did I turn on that man and square off at him? When I was a little kid, I was 11 years old and he was coming after me. And I remember I turned and this is his clearst day to me.

I said, if you ever lay a hand on me again, I will call the police for child abuse. But I didn't know that. I know, but that's what, but see, that was like the connecting of the dots of, because I was like, as my uncle described me, I was just this happy little, you know, fool type kid, the fool in the tarot deck. I was happy. I loved everyone. Everyone loved me. I was so happy to see everyone. Well, that went away.

Katharine Giovanni (18:26)
You were a different soul. Sure you did. No, of course not. None of us do. None of us.

I doubted myself, didn't I?

Yeah.

Kathleen Flanagan (18:51)
when I came in, it went away. But I also picked up hers and I had to go through and release her trauma and all of that. So when I was doing your, huh?

Katharine Giovanni (19:00)
You do.

You do. I mean, it's still the her trauma is in the your body cells. The soul might not be in there, but her trauma is literally in the cells of your body. And you can release this through forgiveness, but it's still there. You still have to process it.

Kathleen Flanagan (19:06)
Yes, yes, I know.

Right, and that's what I started to do when I read your book on forgiveness because I took on a whole new level of what forgiveness meant for me. And I remember the day that she came to me and said, I'm ready to go now. Because I didn't even know she was still around, but I think she was around watching, making sure I'm okay. And because my father was dead now, it was like, it was time for her to leave too, because now I'm like, okay, I'm ready to let you go. And it was just a simple thing of,

You know, like, thank you for taking over. Thank you for giving me the body. Everything's fine. There's no ill feelings. There's none of it. It was just and it was like when she left, I could feel a shift in my body when she left, too. It was really it's an interesting concept. It's an interesting experience because I didn't think I was a walk in until you, Catherine, Catherine said, yes, you are.

Katharine Giovanni (20:11)
Nobody thinks there are, I'm a walk-in too. I don't usually admit to it, but I am. And I walked in, I was, I tried to commit suicide in the eighth grade because I was bullied and I was different. And my parents were raging alcoholics and it was just, connect all the dots you want to get that it was all of that and more. So I tried to commit suicide. A friend talked to me out of it. And I turned into one of those teenagers.

Kathleen Flanagan (20:13)
Thank

Katharine Giovanni (20:40)
You know, draped in black. course I was living in New York city at the time. We were all wearing black. So I don't know how I'm still wearing black today. Anyways, I, you know, I was, I, I was just kind of drifting and my parents thought I was a real screw up. So they sent me to a program called dynamic, which long since folded, but it was an outward bound kind of program for troubled teens. And half the year was spent. husband.

Kathleen Flanagan (21:04)
No.

Katharine Giovanni (21:09)
laughs whenever he hears this story because he just doesn't think I was a troubled teen. He roars with laughter. But half the year you're out in the woods canoeing and rappelling and climbing mountains and the other half you're in Worcester, Massachusetts going through internships. And part of it is you're in the woods for three days by yourself with no food. And that's when I walked in because you can only lie to yourself for so long. I was angry.

And I came out of those woods, a completely different person. And the people who were leading it looked at me and said, nobody's changed as much as you have. What happened out there? And I had no idea what happened. I was a kid. I was like 19 years old. And I said, I don't know. I guess I just decided to grow up. And I didn't realize what I was until maybe 30, 40 years later when I heard the term walk-in and I started connecting some dots.

Now you may think this is just a fluke thing between two people who randomly met each other, but what the two of us will look at you and say, there are millions of walk-ins out there. It's really common to be, to be honest, but nobody talks about it, but it is really, really common. And if you think you're a walk-in and you're identifying with this conversation, you probably are. Google walk-in, there's a book about it.

which I recently discovered on the internet. But if you Google term walk-in, you'll get all sorts of information.

Kathleen Flanagan (22:38)
Yeah, was, what was his name? Something Dick Stefan, I think it was, was a walk-in. It was the first concept I heard about it in the 80s. I think it was. I had access to a lot of things. I mean, I had access to a lot of things when I was, because in my 20s, I'm sitting here, how do I know about the Brotherhood of the White Light, the Council of Nine, I'm an empath. I mean, all these, I was so incredibly intuitive. There were some...

Katharine Giovanni (23:05)
You walked in

with that language. That's not every soul wants to go through the birth process and toddlers. Some souls want to come down here to the planet into a human that's already been through that stuff. So some of them, some of them say, okay, you do the first half, I'll do the second half. And that works for me. Fine. There's a thousand reasons why people, you know, get walk-ins. is not, ⁓ multi it's not multiple personality disorder.

Kathleen Flanagan (23:07)
I know, I did!

Katharine Giovanni (23:34)
Kathleen and I do not need straight jackets, although I want mine in purple if I do get one, please. The designer color would be perfect. And one of the things that I do teach is anger acts like a shield. It acts like a shield to your intuition. It acts like a shield to your higher self. It acts like a shield to your real path and what you're here to do. Why do I keep repeating the same patterns? Why do I keep dating the same guys?

Kathleen Flanagan (23:57)
And I was angry.

Katharine Giovanni (24:02)
Why do I get money and then lose it and then get money and lose it? Why am I still living in this horrible apartment? It's the anger and the system that I came up with, which is a step by step system, shows you how to forgive because that's the problem. Everybody tells you to forgive. Everybody says, looks at you and says, Kathleen, just let it go.

Is that the magic words? I let it go and I can magically let it go like magic beans? No, it's not. You need a system, a step-by-step system that says, okay, here's how you let it go. Because none of us were taught. There's nothing wrong with anybody. You just weren't taught how.

Kathleen Flanagan (24:44)
In Catherine's book, it's very simple. I mean, she opens the book. This is so funny. She opens the book like, like my anger and I'm not getting rid of it. And why should I change for you? I mean, that's how she opened the book. That's how I felt when Sal read the book. He's like, yep, that's how I feel too. I mean, it was like, when you have anger, you like it because it's your friend. And it was my friend until I didn't want it.

Katharine Giovanni (25:08)
Also,

if it's unforgivable and there are unforgivable things in the world, I don't want to forgive because they don't deserve my forgiveness. Okay, there's a lot of falsehoods about forgiveness out there. The main one is just because I forgive you doesn't mean I want a relationship with you. I probably don't. Just because I forgive you.

Doesn't mean I all of a sudden I'm going to call you. We're going to go out and have coffee. Forgiveness is selfish. It's personal. You do it in the privacy of your own home. Nobody has to know. Just because I forgive you doesn't mean all of a sudden I'm saying you were right and I was wrong. I'm giving you a pass. It does not. You're still wrong. You're still a dumpster fire and you still have amends to make. And I still don't want you anywhere near me. Right? Forgiveness means simply I want you out of my head.

That's it. I want to stop thinking about you. I don't want to go into the bakery and smell an apple pie. And because you were an expert at apple pies, now I'm down that rabbit hole and I'm triggered again. This will completely stop those thoughts so you can breathe again and you can finally become the person that you were always meant to be.

Kathleen Flanagan (26:23)
And it's true, because I've done a lot of forgiveness work around my father. This is Marco, in case you guys don't know. Hello. Yeah, he's our happy boy. Anyways, my father, when he died, I've done a lot of processing with my father throughout my life. And I remember at the time when he died, and I kept saying it's complicated. And as I keep reflecting during this last, well, almost a year now with him, it was,

Katharine Giovanni (26:29)
Ooh, orange cat!

Mm-hmm.

Kathleen Flanagan (26:52)
It was like the floodgates opened of whatever I had buried and stuffed, but it wasn't anger and it wasn't revenge and it wasn't anything. It was just an emotions that opened up that I didn't understand. But I went down rabbit holes at the same time because as a thought came up and it wasn't for him, it was he doesn't deserve my tears. He doesn't deserve this and spirit had to tell me.

Cause nobody was there to help navigate me through this because I wasn't supposed to, I was supposed to do it myself and I got that. And it was spirits like, no, these are tears for your healing.

Katharine Giovanni (27:26)
of giving you

a road sign or a little bit of a heads up.

Kathleen Flanagan (27:30)
No, they didn't do that because they know I can untuff. can take it. I know.

Katharine Giovanni (27:32)
Yeah, they wouldn't give it to me either. It always irritated me. It's like, give

me me some smoke signal, something.

Kathleen Flanagan (27:39)
I know and what was interesting that when the book when we did the launch for the book and I remember talking to people and they're like why didn't you tell me you were so depressed and you were suicidal and it was like first of all you never entered my consciousness. I was the first thing and secondly I said I understand everything it was like because I went through that and I had to face that.

Katharine Giovanni (27:52)
All right.

Kathleen Flanagan (28:03)
I'm never gonna have a dad. He's never gonna come around and heal himself for me. He's never gonna be the man I've ever wanted him to be. I had to take all of that stuff as a little girl, knowing he's a perpetrator, knowing he's evil and dark and bad and everything else. And I still had to own that I loved him. And that I missed him and I'm so angry that I never had a father, but it's okay that I never had a father because I had to own that just like my mother.

Katharine Giovanni (28:29)
Great.

Kathleen Flanagan (28:33)
What I did for my father is what I expected to do for my mother and vice versa, because I saw things about my mother I didn't know were there, and that was pure anger and that was intense forgiveness, and having to come to the fact that I still love my mother regardless of the fact that she never loved me. Now, maybe part of this was because we were both, I mean, you told me she's a walk-in, I'm still wrapping my head around that one, because she had to do that long before I was born.

Katharine Giovanni (28:53)
It's okay to be angry.

Kathleen Flanagan (29:02)
but it would make sense because of what her life was. Because I know, yeah. Yeah. So, and it's all okay, you know, because my mother said, I think I'm a walker. Like, I don't think so. You've had a bitch the whole time.

Katharine Giovanni (29:03)
I'm sure today.

I'm sure she did walk in long before you were born. was not during your lifetime.

I'm telling you walk-ins are really common. We just don't know it. There's a lot of stuff out there that's really common that we don't know about. This is one of them. It's really common.

Kathleen Flanagan (29:21)
you

Right.

Right.

And so, you know, but it's an interesting concept to look at and see. And the fact that we have so many different types of people here that are walk-ins coming from different galaxies, different planets, different solar systems, because this is about the ascension of this planet. This is about the ascension of us. This is about waking us up.

Katharine Giovanni (29:42)
yeah!

front row seat and I've been joking for a very long time now it's like okay guys you think this is all fairy tales and lollipops but I'm here to tell you you sure you want to be here on the front row because you know it's not exactly a cakewalk you know what I'm saying they and I get a lot of laughter in my head when I say that you know as if they're patting me on the head say yeah yeah no they don't get it

Kathleen Flanagan (30:07)
No, it's not a cakewalk.

No, they don't. But you know, it's at the same time, though, as much as I'm like, do I do I have it in me to keep doing this and somewhere deep down I do. I keep moving forward. I can get

Katharine Giovanni (30:30)
Oh, it's

my last lifetime here. Are you kidding? Next time I even threaten to come down, I want you to even come over and smack me across the side of the head and say, remember the last time? Yeah, no. Somewhere else.

Kathleen Flanagan (30:39)
No, my directive is the next time

I come, if I come down again, I have full remembrance. So that means I could be a loony tune in an institution because I would have full remembrance. I know, right? Right, so I figured, okay, I don't wanna come down.

Katharine Giovanni (30:51)
Be careful what you ask for. You might want to be more specific. You might be drawing

with a straight jacket and a pencil.

Kathleen Flanagan (31:00)
Well, maybe I'll do what the angels do now. I'll come in and make an appearance for somebody and be that kind of a person, right? So I'm not here, but I can go back and forth all the time, like the ascended Jesus and all that. Yeah. I think that would be a lot more fun than this. No, it's all good. I just get it.

Katharine Giovanni (31:05)
There you go. There you go.

I might be fine. I'm going to take a lifetime off myself.

Kathleen Flanagan (31:24)
But what I was saying earlier that when I had knowledge to things I should not have had knowledge to in my 20s. And now it's just slowly coming out because I'm being told it's okay to bring it out now.

Katharine Giovanni (31:39)
That's what a lot of people, things come out of people's mouth and they don't know where it come from. And a lot of them, especially if they're claircensin, no, clair, I'm wrong, claircognizant. One minute they don't know it, the next minute it just downloads into their heads. So they don't think they're intuitive because it came from their brain, but it did. I mean, how could you possibly know that? Sometimes you know people are going to die ahead of time. You know what a room's going to feel like when you walk in. If you're empathic,

You walk into a room and it just feels off. Okay, if it feels off, you might want to look around the room and then walk out of the room. Thank you very much. You you shake in somebody's hand and an interview, their resume is perfect. They're just perfect. They're saying the right words. mean, it's picture perfect, but something's off, like really off. So you ignore it and you hire the person.

and three months down the line they steal from you where something blows up and you say these magic words that everybody says, I knew I shouldn't have done that. How many times have you said, I knew I shouldn't have done that? I'm alive today because I didn't, because I didn't ignore that little bird in my shoulder. True story. I am violently allergic to exercise, have been my entire life. Do you see the word exercise in the dictionary? My name is not there.

Kathleen Flanagan (32:46)
I've

You

You

Katharine Giovanni (33:01)
All of a sudden in around 2011, I all of a sudden start hearing, you need to jog, you need to run. No, I ignored it. I said, no, you need to run. You need to move. You need to run. I couldn't get it out of my head. And anybody who's intuitive knows that when these thoughts start until you do it, the thoughts will keep going and they get louder until you do it. It's very, it's mildly irritating.

So I tried, I started the couch to 5k running program, which is a real thing. It's brilliant. It's online and it does exactly what you think it does. And eventually I ran a 5k and while I was doing the jogging, the weight started to come off and I went from a 14 down to an eight. I knew it was coming off too quick. I knew it. And the day before my birthday, I did a self-exam. I found a lump. was stage three, triple positive breast cancer.

10 operations, chemo, you know, a double, you know, double mastectomy. And I'm still here. 13 years later, I'm still alive. But the surgeon told me if I hadn't taken up running exactly when I did, I would be dead. Cause it was in a very strange spot. So my point is you have heard the little bird in your shoulder many times, usually in times of, you know, trial like that.

Kathleen Flanagan (34:02)
in the sector.

Katharine Giovanni (34:27)
but you can actually hear the little bird in your shoulder purposely because you either hear it, see it, know it, or you just sense it. Not everybody hears words like I do. Sometimes you see pictures, sometimes you feel things. Sometimes you just know to turn left instead of right. Everybody has a unique way. There's 15 different ways to that people hear their intuition. I usually only talk about four of them, but there's actually 15.

Kathleen Flanagan (34:57)
Wow. Wow. I don't know what elbows are.

Katharine Giovanni (34:58)
Believe it or not. And we all do this.

out of 10 humans do this. Everybody watching and listening to this broadcast does it. Everybody.

Kathleen Flanagan (35:08)
Everybody does it. It's just that they choose not to listen to it because why? I mean, we're not taught to listen to ourselves. We're not taught to value ourselves enough. We think we're separated from the world when we're not. No, we have a earth suit that we wear. But if you look at the energy, everything is interconnected. And so are we. We're still connected. We're still social beings.

Katharine Giovanni (35:26)
Yeah.

Kathleen Flanagan (35:34)
You think Facebook is a social platform? Well, it's really not a social platform, but it's the illusion that people have of, I have 10,000 friends and are they going to be in the hospital when you die? No, you might be lucky to have your parents or you may not have anyone because I know a lot of people in my generation that are dying that have died alone. You're going to die alone anyways. But they're really alone.

Katharine Giovanni (35:58)
Well, yeah.

But you're never alone because some of the things we were told is not real are really, is really real. Angels are real. Spirit guides are real. The fact that when you die, you are not alone is real. All of these things are real. And

Kathleen Flanagan (36:04)
No.

Katharine Giovanni (36:21)
you can, you know, it's, it's an energy and it's a presence. Now what can block you from hearing all these wonderful things and getting all this wonderful advice is for the more angry you, the more angry you are, the more it's going to block what you can see and you can hear.

Kathleen Flanagan (36:36)
Well, my mother, when she died, I know that somebody walked in the room because everything about her changed. I mean, the way she looked, she was like this little kid. I mean, there was so much that I could tell that they were just waiting for her to say it's time. And then when my uncle passed, my godfather, I reached out to call him because I was like the last one to call. And I had found out he was that it was like any day now.

and I called and he was waiting for me. And so what was so funny is I would tell him things and he's like, yes, Kath and he's sitting here telling me what I'm telling him, but he's like confirming like, already know that, but it's really this and this and this. he's like, and I'm like, uncle John, I know this. I know this. It's like, this is my life. No, he's telling me my life. He is being communicated to let me know that he's connected.

Now I knew he wasn't gonna die alone, but it was just such an interesting experience. And this is a man of very few words, okay? Very few words. It's like, hi, how you doing? Goodbye, nice talking to you and hangs up. That's the kind of guy. No, he sat there on the phone and told me my life.

Katharine Giovanni (37:43)
Yep, I have relatives like that.

Yep, very ⁓ out of character for the man. Yep, I had relatives like that.

Kathleen Flanagan (37:50)
Totally out of character.

And it was just like, I'm just so glad you called because I really wanted to call you. And he died the next day after I called him because I think there was something that he had to do is how I looked at it, that he had to have a confirmation. Cause I think he was a little bit afraid of dying. My mother claimed she wasn't afraid of death. My mother was terrified of dying. My father was terrified of dying. And I think somehow they just needed

Katharine Giovanni (38:17)
couldn't be less terrified of dying.

I know what happens. I actually get people's past lives all the time for people in private sessions. So I know what happens on the other side. I'm not really a fan of pain, to be honest. But I know there's we, this is not the first lifetime anybody has lived. There have been hundreds and hundreds of lifetimes that everybody has lived.

Kathleen Flanagan (38:41)
I know we're going to go down. We're getting close to winding up, but I want to ask you one question. So get your guides on. Somebody said something and I'm really not buying this one, but I want to hear from them. Are people coming into this earth without a soul? Are they being born without souls? Huh? Thank you.

Katharine Giovanni (39:00)
No. No.

That was a fast

no, it was a loud fast no. I don't know who told you that, but no. Everything has a soul, plants, animals. Everything has soul. Everything is sentient. Everything has energy around it. The desk that I have, the little microphone that I'm talking into, everything has energy around it. And everything that's alive, like my plants would.

Kathleen Flanagan (39:09)
Thank

Thank you.

Katharine Giovanni (39:29)
who all have names, thank you very much, including Grandpa, who's a 31 year old plant that's down in my kitchen, true story. Grandpa has a soul and an energy around him and he's a plant and I adore him.

Kathleen Flanagan (39:41)
Thank you, because

I heard this a week ago and I tried to get clarity from the person because I knew it was BS. I just knew it, you know, when something rings, but she was so adamant, so adamant, so adamant. And so I said, okay, so are you telling me that these new, that the people that are coming, that are being born on this planet have never been born and they don't get a soul until they earn their soul?

Katharine Giovanni (40:05)
No, that's wrong. And even brand new souls. And there are young souls and you can tell where a young souls, cause they're usually into how they look and money and that kind of thing. And they want the, they, they want to go through the stuff and they want to feel all the fields and that kind of thing. Everybody has a soul. Everybody. Period. I am solid. 100%. Take that to the bank.

Kathleen Flanagan (40:10)
Yes, there are young souls.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yep.

Katharine Giovanni (40:32)
Now what you were seeing with her is that was her fear talking.

Kathleen Flanagan (40:37)
That's her fear? Well, that's an interesting thought.

Katharine Giovanni (40:38)
She was

scared that she didn't have a soul. Something scared her and that was her way of addressing her own fear. She was scared she came in soulless because of something she did in her life, something bad that she did. So she connected some dots that she probably shouldn't have connected. Well, since I'm a bad person, clearly I don't have a soul, so there must be other people like me.

Kathleen Flanagan (40:49)
Okay.

Katharine Giovanni (41:06)
She connected some dots that shouldn't have been connected. It was her fear that was talking. She was trying to understand ⁓ her fear and what she did. And let's just say she didn't do it very well. Because there's a more loving answer to what her fears were.

Kathleen Flanagan (41:25)
Yeah, okay. No, I have that. It's just...

Katharine Giovanni (41:26)
I approach everything with, I

approach everything and what is the most loving way I can get through this, which is how I would probably approach counseling her.

Kathleen Flanagan (41:37)
Well, I think I'm I know some of her story and and I think part of it makes sense. And there's just things. There's just things. And she knows I question her all the time anyways. But I just wanted to.

Katharine Giovanni (41:52)
wrap

my arms around her and give her a hug. That's kind of my knee jerk reaction is I want to give her a hug and tell her it's going to be okay.

Kathleen Flanagan (42:00)
Well, she knows somewhere deep inside is going to be okay, but there's a lot. I mean, it's just a lot of things and it's all okay and I understand and I'm not going to go down because I'm sure she's listening to the show anyways.

Katharine Giovanni (42:09)
Give her my paw.

They

were my book. I have an online class and it's super easy, super simple, 10 days and I'll even have you forgiving money.

Kathleen Flanagan (42:24)
Yeah, money's a thing to forgive. I keep working on forgiving all of that too. I still do a lot of forgiveness work, believe it or not, people. As much as I forgive, I keep doing more because when somebody comes up or I trigger or they're in my head doing whatever, doesn't matter what it is. If my father pops up, it's like, okay, I think I need to forgive him because I'm like going down a spiral again. So it's just like, okay, whatever this is. And I just keep working the forgiveness because

Katharine Giovanni (42:26)
There you go!

Kathleen Flanagan (42:52)
What I found, the more I forgive, the lighter I get and the happier I get and the more life is enjoyable.

Katharine Giovanni (42:59)
You're not getting angry again. You can get somebody on a scale of one to 10 with 10 being unforgivable and one being easy. You can get somebody who you've labeled a 10 all the way down to a one and you're probably going to get angry at them again because there's residual anger. It's like washing a glass in the dishwasher. And sometimes you have, when you take the glass out, you have to wipe it because there's some residual, you know, guts in the glass. That's what this is. So

When your father makes you mad again, for example, it's not going to go back up to a 10. You're probably going to look at it and say, ⁓ you're going to notice it. You're going say, well, that's irritating. And then you're going to toss it. You know you forgiven because it doesn't bother you anymore. The burden is gone.

Kathleen Flanagan (43:44)
Right. And that's definitely what I've noticed. it's not like the, you know, like you're clenching your teeth, especially when you start on that 10 person, that is a hard place to go. You know, so when Catherine tells you to start at the ones that are easy, there's a reason why you start at the ones easy because you need to get practice because when the anger flares up and it's in your throat and you're like, you just want to kill and murder and see red.

Katharine Giovanni (43:51)
Yeah, yeah, that's gone. All the tens are hard. The tens are hard.

Kathleen Flanagan (44:14)
You need to just know how to like be calm again. I mean,

Katharine Giovanni (44:18)
There

are 10, do them last. Do not start with your number 10s, please. You start with the easy ones. And I, in the book and also in my class, there's a very easy step by step, do this, do this, do this. It's a seven step. Somebody counted up the steps for me once. It was a podcaster. I think they told me it was seven steps. Okay. And it's seven steps, real easy that will get you to forgive that person you never thought you would forgive in your life. But if you never forgive that person,

It's totally fine. I'm the only one on the planet that's gonna tell you you don't have to forgive the unforgivable because there are things in this world that are unforgivable, 100%. There's other things within that memory that you can forgive. And that's the hope. You can still get peace without forgiving the one dude.

Kathleen Flanagan (45:06)
Right, and I highly recommend Catherine's book to everyone and I'm gonna put it in the show notes. So Catherine, how can people get a hold of you?

Katharine Giovanni (45:16)
Just go to my website. My first name is spelled a little odd thanks to my mother, but it's K-A-T-H-A-R-I-N-E. So it's KatherineGiovanni.com, the book, the class. I've got a lot of podcast episodes in there that explain the system. Everything's right there for you. And the books are all on Amazon.com.

Kathleen Flanagan (45:34)
All right, well, I want to thank you so much for being here with us today, Catherine. It was so much fun to go down a little bit of a different rabbit hole than what we probably planned on talking about. But this was fun because I think this is people are just looking and searching and they might be having experiences and who talks about this stuff. Not very many people. So I don't mind leading the forefront on this. And I want to thank all of my guests today and the

That's subscribers, anybody watching, thank you for showing up. I do appreciate it. If you've got any value, please like or subscribe and reach out to me or Catherine. I'm sure we will be more than happy to talk to you about whatever's coming up. I have a free school community. I am the light sanctuary. Check it out. This is for people like us that, you you got things, it's a safe haven so you can calm down and just be okay being with you. And it's a very safe and protected community.

And I want to again, thank you for coming. I will see all of you next Tuesday at 4 p.m. Eastern Standard Time. And from my heart to yours, I wish you all a fabulous week.

having trouble stopping this.