Let Your Body Talk

KATHLEEN: Hello everyone and welcome to the Journey of an Awakening Spirit. This is Kathleen Flanagan, your host, and we're streaming on the Bold Brave TV network. The purpose of the show is to help you realize that you are not alone and that you are in control of your life. It doesn't matter where you came from or what your circumstances are.

KATHLEEN: We've all experienced pain, suffering, hurt, abandonment, loneliness, and hopelessness. This show is here to help you turn those dark moments around and create a whole new you. Despite your success, have you felt lonely, angry, frustrated, or even suicidal? Do you long to be supported, recognized, and respected for who you are and not just the awards and accolades on your walls?

KATHLEEN: You don't want to be known, identified, or remembered in a way that feels fraudulent because you achieve things out of obligation and not passion. Do you find yourself sitting quietly at lunch listening to what lights you up, only to feel shame, fear, frustration, and resentment?

KATHLEEN: Your inner turmoil and limiting beliefs surface, making you feel not good enough and afraid of doing something different. You've read the books, attended the seminars, and practiced new concepts. And principles, yet you find yourself in the same runt. The lies you tell yourself perpetuate a cycle of disappointment.

KATHLEEN: You say you'll change, but your self-limiting beliefs keep running the show and creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. As a certified coach, I empower you to become your authentic self. My Soul Journey program aligns with your true self and guides you to find your soul vision, helping you discover your purpose in life.

KATHLEEN: I provide tools to step into your true magnificence and remember who you are. If you are interested in learning more, contact me at bravetv at kathleenmflanagan.com. And each week I start the show with the sound of the tuning forks, bringing in love, happiness, and balance to set the tone for the show for both myself and my guest. Let's begin.

KATHLEEN: Gen X is a leadership coach. Author and speaker dedicated to empowering individuals to awaken their body's wisdom and tap into their innate intelligence, enabling them to lead authentically from within. With over 30 years of experience as a dance educator, trainer, and speaker, Jen has developed a transformative three-phase framework, become embodied, feel empowered, and live elevated.

KATHLEEN: This journey aligns with the natural rhythm of life. Offering a sense of familiarity and comfort while providing a clear roadmap to living your most empowered self.

KATHLEEN: At the core of Jen's work is her signature practice, the power of gesture, an embodied method using hand gestures that guide individuals through each phase with purpose and ease. Jen believes that mastering your own emotions and understanding those of others is the key to unlocking both personal fulfillment and professional success. Welcome, Jen.

JEN: Thank you.

JEN: It's so good to be here.

KATHLEEN: It's so good to see you. You too.

KATHLEEN: So why don't you tell the audience a little bit about your journey of becoming an awakening spirit?

JEN: Wow. It's a big question.

JEN: That's it. That's it. We went for it right away.

JEN: Wow. Well, it's been quite a journey. I mean, I'm 54 almost. And I really feel like I've been on a path for my entire life. I've always felt that I have been a part of something greater than me.

JEN: And I never quite understood that energy until the last four years. But up to this, I've always felt like this awakening has been happening. And It's always felt very magical to me, a different road, you know, different moments along the path, along the road.

JEN: I certainly was connected to feeling disembodied and not awakened in terms of my own struggle when I was younger. And then in my late 20s, I would say that's when the awakening started to happen because I started to hear and feel a presence around me.

JEN: That challenged me to wake up, you know, and, and really look at the power and the intelligence inside of myself. And it was probably that it definitely was that moment, very specific moment that sort of created and started that awakening, and then unlock information that really guided me empowered me to go on the journey that I've had ever since.

KATHLEEN: Okay. So what happened before that, that led you to the awakening?

JEN: You mean what was the struggle?

KATHLEEN: Yes.

JEN: I can go there. I can.

KATHLEEN: Of course you're going to go there because I'm going to have you go there because people need to understand. I want them to understand the full story of you because we all had a pivotal moment in our life that caused the big shift. So you've had the big shift. So what actually caused that shift for you? To take that to that next level and to the evolution of Gen X.

JEN: Yeah, thank you. I appreciate that so much. So I struggled a lot as a child in school. I struggled in school because to me, everything was presented in a very linear fashion. It was very traditional, very conservative, and I did not resonate with how information was presented. And so I struggled in the classroom. Felt like I wasn't seen at all.

JEN: So I started to develop a story about myself that I wasn't smart. The classroom struggle alongside of not doing well on my SAT scores, you know, not doing well on these traditional measures of success that society really puts in front of us. I just, you know, that story deepened. And I would say for about 20 years, I had significant self-doubt, debilitating, in fact.

JEN: You know definitely felt sick at times didn't feel worthy enough to be at different parties social events have my voice hurt and i physically got sick a lot and then in my late 20s or at 27 years old i was dating this guy ironically who graduated Harvard University and then princeton okay to get his like masters don't ask but it's all good i i've come to understand my value now why he loved me so much but at the time i was like why me kind of thing anyhow he grew up with John F Kennedy Jr he was very good friends with him and a couple years into our relationship he told me that we were going to go to dinner with jfk jr and his wife and i completely i had this very visceral reaction that had my body completely shut down.

JEN: I went into panic mode and I just told myself like, who are you? You can't sit at a table with this guy. Like he's going to ask you all kinds of questions about like healthcare, politics, which was not true, but that's what I thought. So I denied this invitation and it really was like a once in a lifetime. It was just him and his wife and me and my boyfriend at the time.

JEN: And it was that night that I found myself on the shower floor. That's where I used to go to get. You know, to feel comforted. And the shower still remains to be in my safe haven. And I was on that shower floor, curled up in a ball and anxious and sad and disappointed in myself and all the things.

JEN: It was like everything led to this moment. It was this culmination of, you know, it's just not good. And I felt this energy around me. And this was the voice I had mentioned, you know, this presence that challenged me and asked. How long are you going to allow society to define you before you've defined yourself?

JEN: And the question was very clear and it landed. And I knew I was more than that. And I knew that I was worthy and smart. I just had to figure out my own. So I listened because I was ready. That was it. That was my rock bottom. There was no going deeper. So that was it. And I had to listen. And that's when I woke up.

JEN: And very soon after that, I found the work of Howard Gardner, who's a professor at Harvard University. Teaches and has written many, many books about the multiple forms of intelligence. And when I came across this work, that's when my life changed, because I realized that there are many ways to process, learn, express.

JEN: There are many forms of intelligence, many ways that this word can be measured in a human being. And I dove deep into the research and I most aligned. With kinesthetic and emotional intelligence, both of which I have very strongly. I've been a dancer my entire life. I understand.

JEN: I've been a dance educator for over 30 years. Like that is my jam and emotional intelligence. And so I did a lot of research and it led me on a whole new chapter in my life, which led me to the work I'm doing now. So that was the struggle. And then that was the awakening. And now the big shift and the chapters after that.

KATHLEEN: And how they took place well I'm a dancer too i know I know and I also know that because I couldn't speak because I was told I wasn't allowed to speak the only form of expression I knew at the time was dance and and that was really hard because you know as a young teenager 16, 17, we're messed up anyways. Even if we want to say we're not, we are. And I just didn't know how to voice anything.

KATHLEEN: I had so much rage inside. Not that I fully understood that yet. I didn't know. I just knew I had to express. And so I got into ballet and modern dance pretty much is how I started. And I was very creative choreographing dances that you know, you don't see the type of choreography that I created, but it was fun, you know? And of course I got into it.

KATHLEEN: And then, then as I got older, I ended up in being a paralegal, which was really good because it helped to get my mind going because, you know, I'm like, I didn't feel whole. I didn't feel whole at all. And I played stupid in school because I didn't want anybody to expect anything out of me, even though I knew I was smart. I just, I mean, I played a lot of games because I wanted no eyes on me.

KATHLEEN: And I remember always wanting to take ballroom dancing for some reason. I just wanted to do that. And the opportunity finally did come. And that was what changed my life is when I got back into dance, partner dancing, which is the hardest thing in the world to do, in my opinion, because it's not only your energy you're dealing with. Now you're dealing with somebody else.

KATHLEEN: And then as the woman, I have to be the follower, which was. Oh, I don't think so. You want me to trust a man? A man is supposed to lead me? Are you freaking kidding? I mean, every limiting belief that I ever had showed up during that period of time because I didn't even know I thought those things until you get into a partnership dance. And I was with a man at that one point and I said, I'm not dancing with you.

KATHLEEN: You make me crazy. Because he was controlling me. He was pushing me on the floor instead of allowing me. And he could dance really fine with everyone else. Everyone else thought it was great, but he couldn't do it with me. And I just said no. And we even had like couples therapy, so to speak, on the dance floor. We're trying to teach him not to push me.

KATHLEEN: It didn't work.

KATHLEEN: But I just think it was so funny because I didn't realize until I met you that this was an actual intelligence. That there was a way because I'm so about movement, you know, I'm always doing the arm thing and pulling in energy and never understood that.

KATHLEEN: And I want to dive a little bit more into that because they're going to make me go to a commercial break any second now. So that's the only reason I'm talking is so I can, we can dive into it in the next segment.

JEN: Absolutely. Oh, I'm so excited. I'm ready.

KATHLEEN: Good. So we'll be right back.

KATHLEEN: Welcome back everyone to the journey of an awakening spirit. This is Kathleen Flanagan, your host, and we're streaming on the Bold Brave TV network. And I have Jen Aks in the room with us today. And I decided I was going to lead her into what she, how she developed that her.

KATHLEEN: Her hand gestures movements that she created, because that was something that naturally came to me, not understanding it until years later, but how you created that whole thing and what your experience was and how it formed. Because I think people would like to know more about that, because I know that's about trusting your higher self and spirit and your guidance.

JEN: Yeah, absolutely. So I did. So Prior to the pandemic, I had been teaching children, thousands of children and hundreds of teachers in the United States, traveling a lot, teaching them really embodied learning, basically using their body as a vehicle to learn and express and know the truth of who they are.

JEN: And that was through an organization for many years. I still do trainings for them. When the pandemic hit, everything shut down. Including our bot.

JEN: And we really went in and so much happened to all of us in such a variety of ways. And the one thing, the isolation, the fear, all of that, I would say that there are common emotions across the board. I think that we all felt in varying degrees. Because of my experience prior to the pandemic.

JEN: And really knowing how the body can heal and help break free of those emotions that can keep us stuck and locked in and not moving forward I knew that I could help I wasn't sure how because the work that I had been doing wasn't going to translate to this new energy that I felt a new vision that was calling me but I knew I could help so I just dove in and I trusted my body my body said go and I did And I started working with people that I knew and then it expanded.

JEN: And here's what happened. I was working with people on Zoom. So we were confined to the square and we would be talking about their experiences, right? Their emotional experiences and what was happening to their body as a result of it.

JEN: And because I wanted to stay close to the camera and not have them get up and do, you know, full bodied movement, instead really stay connected. For me, it was in. Important to stay connected to their eyes, to their soul, to their energy as much as possible. I started to ask them to embody their emotions with their hands, right? Just staying within the frame.

JEN: So as a side, you cannot believe how many gorgeous gestures I have seen over the last five years. Like it's a big piece of choreography that's going on in my head as a dancer and as a choreographer, because these gestures are so beautiful and so powerful and really started to help people unlock, transform, break free, release, unlock all of the things. And I was like, oh my God, like this is a thing.

JEN: And I kept saying, there's so much power in gesture. There's so much power in gesture. Like what is going on? So then I started to do some research and there's specific tissue in the brain that is connected to the hands that's helped you process your emotions and help you express yourself. It is a healing connection that is purposeful that many people are not aware of, including myself until I did the research.

JEN: So that gave me more. Confidence to keep going. And this practice just kept evolving. So I trademarked it and now it's my signature practice. And I have worked with so many people at this point, whether it's individuals or groups, because in the group setting, what's unbelievable is the gestures. This is a universal language. We all have the same emotions.

JEN: It's just a matter of how do we experience them? We experience them differently, but we can all access these emotions. So when we share this, through the power of gesture, we're able to understand and hear one another in a very different, unique way. So it really unlocks connection in such a profound way. It's truly incredible. So that's how it started.

JEN: It started during the pandemic and it has evolved ever since. And it is a body set practice. There's so much emphasis on mindset, which is needed, but it's half of the equation. There's body set. And that's what I talk about. Helping us realign to the truth of who we are. And the truth of who we are is directly connected to our emotional intelligence, the sensations that run inside of us.

JEN: It's our body's wisdom. And that's what this practice does. It brings us to the body and then it brings us to the mind. I'm going to say one other thing. I had a client this morning who said it was amazing because I couldn't find the words. But then when I... Embodied the emotion, the words came.

JEN: And I said, exactly, because the body speaks, the body knows. It's just about learning how to listen. And that's what the power of gesture does.

KATHLEEN: And I know that to be true. I've talked to quite a few people this weekend that actually had a lot of physical stuff happening. And, you know, it's like, have you talked to your body? Are you asking it? Now, I didn't think of gesture because you and I didn't have a very in-depth conversation about it. And it's not part of my consciousness the way it is for you.

KATHLEEN: But I was hearing their bodies and doing, saying that. And as you were speaking, I was remembering when we were at Books And Business and you got to come up and do a small presentation with, it was six people. Three people doing three different types of emotion and then the opposite. And it was such a beautiful dance and choreographed that because we did it too.

KATHLEEN: I mean, we were all doing it and I could feel the shift in my body from everything that you were doing. And it was just, I felt like we were like on Broadway. That's what it felt like. Because it was just like how everybody was doing this and opening and whatever the emotion was. And then we did the opposite.

KATHLEEN: And I was like, It was such a freeing experience. And that's what I loved about this. And it's like, I'm going to have to work on doing more of this with people when I talk to them about how, not that I know how to do it fully, but understanding that a little bit more to help them. Because some people are really afraid that like my body's failing me and I don't know what to do.

KATHLEEN: I'm doing this and I'm doing this and I'm asking and blah, blah, blah. And I'm, and I'm kind of, I would have thought about that, but I do have their contact information. So I will send them your way. But the whole point is, is that people are very, very afraid. Yeah.

KATHLEEN: And especially when their body's doing something or they've had very bad experiences because one lady had all these botched surgeries and now they're talking about doing it because she can't get swallow very well. And the poor thing could barely eat lunch. And I just stood there and held the energy for her. And this might be something that can help her because she's like. She describes herself, she's a wallflower.

JEN: Right.

KATHLEEN: And she's not a wallflower, but that's how she sees herself. And I'm thinking with what you offer, you could probably help her release whatever this is because she's terrified to speak. That's why this is happening with her.

JEN: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. It is scary. And, you know, it's important to validate that because emotions can be very terrifying. I understand. And when we frame it differently, though, when we look at our emotions as teachers, as as parts of ourself, as opposed to all of who we are. So for her, this is part of her. It's not all of her.

JEN: So it's a matter of calling in another part that can show compassion and curiosity to say. What are you trying to tell me? Or what is, why are you, or how can I help you? Or what do you need in this moment? Right? And framing it that way as opposed, because so many times our emotions are connected to trauma that's happened in our life. We don't want to revisit that. And I get that.

JEN: And I'm not a trauma therapist and I do not pretend to be. However, I do work with a lot of people that have trauma. And I find that when we move toward it, as opposed to away to it, but moving toward it, not to relive it. Instead, to really understand and be curious, then it really opens that part up. But before we do that, we have to create safety.

JEN: And I understand that. Because people, in order to really explore these parts of themselves, they need to feel safe. And that is essential. That is the first step. So I understand all of that. I understand how she feels. And it's a process. But it's there for her. And it's an important one if she wants to free herself of it and live. Fully expressed.

KATHLEEN: So I have a question for you. She's a massage therapist.

KATHLEEN: Do you think that part of what some of this could be is that she's taken on other people's energies? Does that come into any of the equations where you're taking on other people's energy and you don't know how to get rid of it?

JEN: A hundred percent. And it's not even about, right? It's so much in the words we use too, because maybe, you know, I'm thinking about myself and my own work. I hold a lot.

JEN: Right you do too I hold a lot of emotion and stories and all of it and I need to release and I don't look at it like I'm trying to get rid of it I'm looking at it as part of my soul part of my existence but I need to move it through my body so I get on my yoga mat I do some gestures I do my yoga you know I have found a way that works for me so the answer to your question is I think absolutely.

JEN: I think that she could be holding some of that. And some of it is probably her own story of limiting beliefs. She's caring for herself. Yeah.

KATHLEEN: Yeah. Cause the other woman that I spoke with, she, she's having, I mean, she says, I feel like I walk like an old person cause she's very stiff. I mean, she turned like this to me, you know, and I understand that. I, I, you know, I know people that have had that. And, and we were, we were at this home, it was so loud. I couldn't hear.

KATHLEEN: I knew spirit was giving me a message, but I couldn't hear it because it was so loud. So then, so as soon as I got back to the hotel and got into bed, it, it dropped. And I told her the next day and I said, you are okay. And you are doing all the right things. And she's releasing lots and lots of trauma in her body. And I said, you just need to just trust you need your, your body's trying to catch up to you.

JEN: Yeah.

KATHLEEN: Because And that was what, because I'm thinking, yeah, I've had that kind of stuff where sometimes our spirit is out there so far ahead of us that the body's lagging behind trying to get up. And then we're mad at the body because it's not moving as fast as spirit can move. And I tell people that you have to find a way to make all of that work.

KATHLEEN: And I have always thought that when I dance or when my head's all messed up or whatever, I go out and dance. Because it just releases all of that. And then there's clarity. And then I feel like the body's catching up. Because sometimes the body just has to dump the stuff.

JEN: Yeah.

KATHLEEN: But we don't give it time to dump the stuff.

JEN: Yeah, absolutely. It needs to be, you know, it's a priority shift. You know, it's really people need to know the power and the value of it. And then they can bring it into their life. But a lot of people don't understand the power of the body and what it's really here and meant to do. So it's podcasts like this that really are helpful. People like that.

KATHLEEN: Right.

KATHLEEN: Well, we're going to go ahead and take a quick commercial break and we'll be right back.

JEN: Perfect.

KATHLEEN: Welcome back everyone to the journey of an awakening spirit. This is Kathleen Flanagan, your host, and we're streaming on the Bold Brave TV network. And I have Jen Aks in the room with us today. So Jen, I was thinking, I know that the podcast portion, people won't see what we're doing, but the YouTube portion, people can see what we're doing. So I was wondering if you would be willing to do like a demonstration.

KATHLEEN: So for people, so that if they're on Spotify or Apple podcasts, then we can direct them to the YouTube channel, which is at Kathleen M. Flanagan or at Bold Brave TV, either one. So there's two places you can find us at. But I think this would be really to help bring more clarity because some of us are visual. So I think if we could do that, I think that would be awesome.

JEN: Yeah, absolutely. And will I be able to, I can do this real quick. And can I share my music too? Because there's a music. Sure. Okay. Okay. Beautiful. All right. So let's begin by having you place one hand on your heart and other hand on your belly and close your eyes for a moment, allowing yourself to feel your hands on your body and feeling the meaning behind this gesture.

JEN: Which is a gesture of love, connection, support, courage, strength.

JEN: So while we're here, just for a moment, I would love for you to notice what emotion is moving through your body. And there's no wrong or right.

JEN: Just noticing what the emotion is after this beautiful conversation and your life and how you've arrived here.

JEN: What do you notice from an emotional perspective? And when you have that, you can relax your hands and open your eyes.

KATHLEEN: Excitement.

JEN: Yes.

JEN: Okay. So I want you to, where do you feel that in your body also? Excitement.

KATHLEEN: I think I felt it both in my heart and in my belly. Like there was like an infinity going through it, you know? Well, you look at me, I'm already doing it, right?

JEN: He speaks. We don't even need to mess around with the question or. That's what I was going to ask you. Let's embody. So let's do that. Show me. Cause that was your natural innate wisdom. Show me that gesture. I'm going to do it with you.

KATHLEEN: Okay. It was both of them. It was a figure eight on both of them, both hands going at the same time. So it was like an upstream downstream kind of thing. So it's a merging of the way I saw it was like heaven coming down, Earth coming up and vice versa.

JEN: Okay. So I love this. So this is heaven coming down.

KATHLEEN: And the Earth coming up.

JEN: Okay. So then the Earth coming up. Now, my last question to you is where, so do this with me. This was your gesture here, right? Earth coming up. What becomes possible? When you embody this, right? So that mother Earth and then that infinity and that beautiful, and then this like rising, does it stay here? Does it expand even more? Does it go further?

KATHLEEN: Oh, it goes up. It completely goes up.

KATHLEEN: And as it goes up, then it comes back down like this. So it's all encompassing my body.

JEN: I love it. Okay. We're going to do one minute. I'm going to put some music on. Okay. And I want you to, hopefully you'll be able to hear my sound because this isn't on my thing, but I believe you'll still be able to hear it, even if it's just a little. And I want you to embody the gestures a few times. We don't have forever.

JEN: So just as soon as you feel complete, relax your hands and open your eyes. I want you to move slowly and I want you to repeat it at least once because it gives your body an opportunity to really speak. It's not just one and done and you're not moving. Quickly.

JEN: We need to allow ourselves to slow down and receive the information that the body is trying to tell you. I also want you to close your eyes so that you can really go in. When you're complete, relax your hands, open your eyes. Okay, place your one hand on your heart and belly and close your eyes for a moment, really allowing yourself to feel this energy fully.

JEN: And when the music comes on, you'll start your gestures. I will follow you and if you're watching this please follow us too.

JEN: Slow beautiful yes Wow. How did that feel?

KATHLEEN: Oh, God, it just feels so energized and just so much vibrational love and from mother Earth and father sky and heaven and God and all of it. It was like, I just like all the animals, everything came into me. It was like everything, every form of life. And it was all pure love.

KATHLEEN: And as I opened my arms to bring the world in, I brought in all the light of the people, even if they were in the darkness, I brought their light in and then expanded it back out. Because when I did this, it was about taking it all out so they can receive it.

JEN: That is absolutely beautiful. It was beautiful to watch you. And I loved how you allowed your hands to take shape in different ways. And I want to say something to your listeners. I think it's really important that you do not need to be a dancer to do this.

JEN: You need to be willing to try something different and to be vulnerable. The hands, the gestures can be super fluid and big, or they can be very small and holding your heart. They can embrace your head. Maybe it's a tap on the shoulder. It's there's a million. Ways to do it. And we also embody the dark.

JEN: We just don't have time to do that but we embody the dark because it's important to give those parts a voice as well it's that other stuff that helps break free that's it's those other voices of strength that come through to help the voices that are not feeling so great so i just want everyone to know that we it's so important this practice is the duality it's allowing us to live with all of of the feelings.

JEN: So that they all work together inside of us. It's like an internal emotional community and they're all figuring out how to live together. And through this dance, through this embodiment, this body set practice, they can do it.

KATHLEEN: And I felt like there was, if there was any darkness inside, I felt like I was bringing light into it in a very non-invasive, emotional, icky place that we go. When we're feeling it, it was like it's there and just wash it out. Like I don't have to relive it. I tell that to people all the time. That's why I like sound too is you don't have to relive it. You just need to release it sometimes.

JEN: That's right.

KATHLEEN: But acknowledge that it's there. It's when we deny it is when we have those problems.

JEN: That's right. Exactly. You said it perfectly. We're so aligned in that way. And the more people...

JEN: That are willing to really shift that narrative and really look at it from a different perspective, the better the world will be, right? Because it will bring us peace. And when we have that internal peace and sense of empowerment and sense of focus from an authentic place, then we can really live on purpose, really live our purpose, what we're meant to do in this world.

JEN: And it's really just returning home. You know, it is this work is returning home to the truth of who we are, the power that we are, the incredible source that we are. And so just leaning into that more and more. That's the work. So important.

KATHLEEN: I, I totally agree with everything you just said there, because that's what I want to do, too, is bring people back into remembrance because we're not. These human beings were having a human experience, but we are so much bigger than that. And we have so much more.

KATHLEEN: And, you know, I talked to a couple of people over the weekend and, and they're like, you're so determined and there's no doubt that you're going to have everything that you want because you're just, you're just so dialed in on yourself. And I said, but I spent the last year really working in and paying, putting, having coaches to help me see things that I couldn't see. Because, you know.

KATHLEEN: You're no good if you can't see what you can't see. And we all have blind spots. So it's up to allowing people to come in and share that part, which we don't ever like to hear. But it's how do you change if you can't see it? We're not designed to see everything about ourselves. That's why we need people. That's why we're a society.

KATHLEEN: We're not isolate. We're not isolist. We're we're social beings. Even though we all want to be alone and leave me alone, but we hate being alone. And yet you're alone and you're in a party. It's like, well, I'm with all these people, but I feel alone because you have to find that love inside of you.

JEN: Right.

KATHLEEN: And that's what I think is so important because when I watched all these people, I just kept, because it was so loud and noisy and it was like, this is not my group. I mean, it was truly not my group and it was okay that it wasn't my group.

KATHLEEN: Because I was there for a different reason, but I navigated to the people that were looking for me and I navigated and they found me or they found me, but I was the one who's doing the navigation and I was the one who didn't want to navigate, but I did it anyways.

JEN: Yeah, exactly.

KATHLEEN: Because I had to trust and, and I had to learn. And I, the way I felt is I was learning how to hear when I couldn't hear.

KATHLEEN: Like I was trusting my body because I really did go inside of, okay, where am I? And I would scan the room. Somebody's looking for me and I would just scan it to feel it. And even though I didn't do gestures like which we just did, I was doing gestures on an inside in a different level, in a different way.

KATHLEEN: And that's where, and I, and I just got that from talking to you of that's what I was doing. Cause you know, sometimes you're like, why am I doing this? And you just want to know why you're doing it. And you just, by just doing what we did, it was like, that's what I was doing.

JEN: Yeah.

KATHLEEN: So it doesn't matter how loud something is, or it's not my people, or whatever you want to say or think or feel, you can still be you. And you can still bring the best of you out and you can be outward focused because that's what I do now is I'm outward focused when I'm in the world. I'm inward focused when I'm in my home.

KATHLEEN: I've learned to find that balance because I had to find that balance.

KATHLEEN: So it's just, again, just another added dimension of feeling comfortable in my skin, trusting myself in ways that I didn't know. And you just brought a whole new.

KATHLEEN: Aha moment.

KATHLEEN: And that's what we do for each other is aha moments.

JEN: I love it. I love it. The, for some reason, the screen is going, Oh, now it's back again. Okay. It was, it was out a little bit of, focus, but I heard everything that you said. And I agree. I love that. I think it's so beautiful. There are so many layers and so many ways to tap into the truth of who we are to remember, to reclaim all of that.

JEN: The work that you're doing, the work that I'm doing. And so it's just beautiful to bring all of this to your audience to show that there's, it's just like there's multiple forms of intelligence. There's multiple ways to return home. There's multiple ways to do everything. There's not just one path.

JEN: And so it's beautiful to have a platform to bring different modalities to your audience to say, hey, maybe this resonates with you and maybe not. Maybe this will resonate with you and maybe not, or maybe that. So it's just nice to have the variety. And I'm so grateful and glad to have had that experience with you just there, the embodied experience that people could see and feel into it.

JEN: And also know that there's just many ways to go about this, that no one's alone. You know, there's so there's room for everybody and everything. And there's so many ways to access this beautiful intelligence inside of our body. And it's just a matter of what aligns, you know.

KATHLEEN: Right. And trusting the body. I mean, you chose your body.

KATHLEEN: You chose it. It didn't choose you. You chose it. You created what you wanted to look like. Well, you wanted your hair, your eyes, all of it. And that's what people don't realize is that everything that we've done in this world is our creation. God didn't create us like this. I mean, our parents may have given us the genetic part.

KATHLEEN: But we found the people that were going to give us closest to what we wanted to look like in this life. And what did we want to learn? Because some people come in with one illness after another after another, but we don't know what their karmic debt is. And so you just trust that. And what do they do?

KATHLEEN: Some of them, it's just, I just need to learn how to, maybe it was their idea of I have to learn how to understand my body. So get sick. One right after another, after another. I mean, I was a migraine sufferer and I learned everything about migraines and I did everything to heal myself from migraines and guess what? They're gone. But it was like, I had to focus and we all seem to have one thing.

KATHLEEN: I mean, we have overriding so-called karma lessons that we want to learn. So how do we, how do we want to learn it? Dance was the fastest way for me to get rid of migraines. It was the fastest way for me to feel okay in my body It was, it was, that was my thing, but that's not everybody's thing. Some people want to be runners or joggers or bikers, you know, mountain climbers.

KATHLEEN: It doesn't matter because what I found is that when I say, well, dance is like, it helped me to understand life through dance. And people are like, do what your heart sings. My heart sings when I dance. Well, some people it's yoga and it's like, wow, you're having the same experience I'm having through dance.

KATHLEEN: Wow, I didn't even think of that was possible. You know, so you start embracing each other's individuality.

JEN: Yeah.

KATHLEEN: Because it's not what we do, it's what we feel.

JEN: Yeah. And the thread that you're, all of the things that you mentioned, whether it's dance or athletics or walking or jogging, all of those are physical. And all of those connect to kinesthetic intelligence, even drawing, you know, poetry, writing.

JEN: All of that isn't an artistic expression. It's an outward express. Well, not all of it's artistic, but it's a you're using your body as the catalyst to express. And this is kinesthetic intelligence. And it shifts when we when we really tap into that. It absolutely shifts our sympathetic nervous system.

JEN: And so there's so much. Power in that. There's a reason we go to the gym and we feel better. People just say, I go to the gym and I feel better. I don't know why, but there's so much science behind it. And the same thing is true.

JEN: For the power of gesture doing the power of gesture allowing your body to be the catalyst for healing and transformation and expression while uncovering the depths of who you are that emotional in there and so all of it is just so tied to this natural innate intelligence that we all have and we all just have to figure out which road is the path that feels most aligned.

KATHLEEN: Well, what would be one piece of advice that you would offer the audience to help them move in a different direction to achieve their dreams or become a better person?

JEN: I don't know why this just came to me, but like, this is, this is something that just shifted me so much. When I started to really awaken and come into this work and really own the power of it, I started becoming conscious of statements.

JEN: That i was making and i made sure that my statements began with i am so if if someone because it not only shifts it's not just mindset it's body set because when you say so for example if someone's saying you know i am feeling insecure about whatever the thing is you know my money i am overcoming my money differences or i am money I am abundant, right?

JEN: Shifting that, those statements of like limiting belief and self-doubt and just flipping the switch on the first part and say, I am, take that negative or limiting belief, shift it to the I am statement and notice how it feels in your body. And then the step further would be to embody that emotion.

JEN: Because when we embody the emotion that we want to feel and cultivate for ourselves, we're making an imprint. So we're retraining our body to lead with that higher vibration as opposed to the limiting belief. That might not be so easy to do right away, but when you practice, you can really create that beautiful habit for yourself.

KATHLEEN: I love it. So how can people get a hold of you?

JEN: Well, they can go to my website, which is my name, www.jenax.com. And Axe is spelled A-K-S. It's not A-X. It's A-K-S. And then I'm also on Instagram. So please join me over there. And if you want to experience the power of gesture, every Tuesday at 10 a. m. Eastern and Wednesday at 12 Eastern, I do a complimentary 30-minute power of gesture class.

KATHLEEN: Wow.

JEN: It's a beautiful way for people to experience the work and then decide if it's for them or not. I know that this is new. The power of gesture is a blend of my research, my experience and somatics. And so people need to understand what it is before they really dive in. So this is my offering for people to play with it and see how it feels in their body and then go. Wow.

KATHLEEN: That's not a beautiful gift. What a beautiful gift. Yeah. No, that's great. Well, I want to thank you so much, Jen, for coming on the show today. It was fun doing that and just having a whole new experience.

KATHLEEN: I mean, different when you're doing it in a group setting versus personally, it's different. It's a totally different experience. And just the excitement that I feel, like I'm so energized. So I want to really thank you for that. And I can't wait to look at what I did since my eyes were closed.

JEN: Oh, yes.

KATHLEEN: Exactly. Yeah. So people, really seriously, go to YouTube at Kathleen M. Flanagan. Or Bold Brave TV and watch the gestures and then take Jen up on what she suggested. And if you got any value out of this, I would love it if you'd like and subscribe to it or even give a link to your friends or family that you think might help them, that help them move through whatever they're having to move through.

KATHLEEN: And if you have any kind of struggles or anything, feel free to reach out to me or Jen, because I'm sure she would be more than happy to talk to you and just see. If there's any way you guys can work together.

KATHLEEN: And then my books, Dancing Souls, The Call, The Dark Night of the Soul, and Awakened are on Amazon. Com. Barnes and Noble and Kathleen M. Flanagan. And then be sure to visit my website for the list of services. And I do have the free De-Stress Meditation, which is a three-minute sound session. Again, for you guys to understand what the sound is so it's not so woo-woo.

KATHLEEN: And that pretty much concludes the show for today. And I will see all of you next week, Tuesday at 4 p. m. And from my heart to yours, I hope you have a fabulous week.

JEN: Bye.