Unlocking the Enigma of Human Behavior: Septemics Unveiled by Jim Marshall

KATHLEEN: I have Jim Marshall here with us today and he is a poly mathematical math intellectual who has devoted over 50,000 hours to the study and practice of multiple dimensions. Of human potential and development.

KATHLEEN: He received a classical education as an honor student at Jesuit Military prep school was accepted into engineering school while still a junior in prep school and attended college on academic scholarship. He graduated college with a Bachelor Of Science. Come loud while still an undergraduate.

KATHLEEN: He began the study of alternative arts and sciences, which today would be described as transformational and holistic. Eventually, he became a professional practitioner. And after 20 years, 28 years of formal education had a long career as a human development engineer, Jim has integrated the best practices of the most advanced techniques on the planet and expanded their limits by his own research and discovery.

KATHLEEN: He has successfully treated and or trained hundreds of clients over a 40 year career and is the inventor of Septem Xs and several consciousness expanding systems.

KATHLEEN: His areas of expertise include psychology, philosophy, theology, parapsychology, science, engineering, mathematics, law, literature, history, music, organization, metaphysics, military science, political science, physical culture and education. Welcome, Jem.

JIM: Thank you, Kathleen. It's good to see you.

KATHLEEN: It's good to see you and thank you so much for coming out on the show today. I know it was pretty quick notice but I studied your website and read what you had on there and it was mind blowing. There's a lot of information and what I want to do today is talk about how you got into this, what happened? Did spirit speak to you?

KATHLEEN: What started this whole process on this journey? This is such a remarkable journey. You describe this more as a textbook, which I could see that after reading the one chapter that you had in the book that this is a study. I would love to learn how you got into this and then how it developed over the years and what you did as far as being a practitioner of what you created and how your life changed.

JIM: Ok. Well, the first thing I should tell you is that I have no memory of a time in my life when I was not intensely curious about every possible academic subject, I can clearly remember at the age of three, I had the same burning inquisitiveness that I have right now. I wanted to know everything. You know, how do the pipes work? How does the TV work?

JIM: How does record player work? How does the car work? I was driven through my life to study and study and study and I'm still doing it. I started school when I was three and I've been engaged in education my entire life one way or another. The other thing I should tell you is that I was shocked at the age of 10 to find out that some kids didn't like school.

JIM: That was such a momentous moment in my life. I can still remember the exact instant standing at the chalkboard in elementary school when I first got that idea, that was hard for me to grasp. I loved school. Now, of course, some of my teachers were jerks but you're gonna run into a few clunkers no matter what you do.

JIM: But that did not diminish my enthusiasm for learning. When I say learning, I mean, learning everything, which is how I wound up becoming a polymath scholar and eventually a polymath intellectual.

JIM: As far as the book to sort of connect this, that journey really begins. When I was accepted into engineering school. At the age of 16, I was accepted into an elite engineering school which I attended on academic scholarship. And of course, I thought when I started out that I was gonna be engineering physical things like air foils or electrons.

JIM: But by the time I had my bachelor's degree, it was clear to me that I wanted to engineer the human psyche because that is the area of greatest difficulty, the area of greatest mystery. It's the area in which we are failing miserably as industrialized society. 95% of the problems that people have in industrialized society are because they don't understand.

JIM: People don't understand the wife, don't understand the boss, don't understand the son, don't understand the grandmother, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Ok. We're not being eaten by lions anymore or starving to death. The problems we have are because we don't understand people.

JIM: So this book that I wrote, solves that issue. That's how this connects to my growing up. Now, by the time I had my bachelor's degree and I decided I wanted to engineer the human psyche. I then had a long career as a human development engineer, working one on one with hundreds of clients of every description for cumulatively many thousands of hours.

JIM: As that was happening, I started to notice incidentally that they would improve in ways that were predictable to me. No, I never told this to anybody but I made notes. As the decades roll by this happened, thousands and thousands of times where I knew the outcome of the session, even though I hadn't said anything to the client.

JIM: Eventually that led me to discover Septemics.

KATHLEEN: When you say that was it in how somebody spoke, that triggered that you would know where they were in this Septemics? You said that you noticed that before the session started, you knew what they were about.

KATHLEEN: Was that through observation? Was it how they communicated whatever their issues were to you? What caused that? I know that's how you started diving deeper into finding. Yes.

JIM: What would happen is I started to notice that the client would be at a specific level on a specific scale that I had previously observed elsewhere. Ok. When the client improved, he'd go up to the next level on that scale that I knew already. Every time that happened, it just verified these observations.

JIM: There's no theory of Septemics, it's all empirical. I simply wrote down what I observed. But because I spent a lot of time doing this and because of my polymath skills, I was able to see it for what it was. I was able to discover an entirely new subject that apparently nobody else discovered before. It has massive implications for people.

KATHLEEN: When you discovered this, did you feel like there was an inkling from spirit? Was it something that was mentally aware of? Was it something that came deep inside of your being? This is huge and you had to crack the code based on our conversation yesterday.

KATHLEEN: There was a code to crack and what you wrote about on your website is that once you crack the code, everything fell into place. I'm curious as to what was it that triggered that awakening, so to speak?

JIM: Well, first of all, I, I don't think it was an awakening. You have to understand, I have a hard science background. I took 26 semesters of math and loved every minute of it.

KATHLEEN: Wow, that's a lot of math.

JIM: Now. I actually less now than before, but in general, I think in math. Ok.

KATHLEEN: Our world is based on mathematics.

JIM: That's right. Math is you could say it's the language of God, you can say it's the language of the universe, whatever you wanna call it. But it's coming from that background and having been died in the wall engineer aptitude tests confirmed that I was a natural engineer. I mean, the top three things on my results were three types of engineer.

JIM: I already knew when I was 16. That's why I was, that's what I was about. When I was a kid, I thought I was gonna be a physicist. But I learned when I learned about engineering, I realized that I'm an engineer. Engineers and scientists are very different. I don't know if you know that it's a different personality type.

KATHLEEN: Oh, I, I know that.

JIM: Yes. I had a very close friend, I went all the way to a prep school with who eventually became a physicist. We got along well. We were next to one another all the time taking the same courses. But as people, we were dramatically different. I would think of him as kind of a weirdo.

JIM: No, but you have to realize when I went to engineering school, there were 2000 engineering students there, we were all very much the same, very practical people. I used all my engineering skills to help my clients and I simply observe things and wrote them down. Well, that's what the scientific method is.

JIM: You do something and you record it and then you try to verify it and to the degree that it's verified, it eventually becomes a hypothesis. And then if it continues to be verified, it becomes a theory. Well, that is the goal of every scientist to create a theory like the theory of evolution or the theory of relativity. There's all kinds, it's all about theories. That's a big word in science.

JIM: I was sort of inured into that. I just followed that my natural inquisitiveness, my burning desire to help my clients.

JIM: I brought all of my knowledge to bear all of these subjects that you referred to earlier. I was able to see these patterns. I was really in a sense, just like a guy who's walking down the street and finds $100 bill and picks it up and put it in his pocket.

JIM: That's how I found this. Now there was a point at which it went from being simply data that I was recording, which nobody knew about but myself to being what I labeled septemic. I'll tell you how that happened.

JIM: I had by 1995 had a collection of scales of varying lengths that I knew were correct from direct observation over many decades, one of these was a six level scale that I had been using on a daily basis for, I don't know, maybe 40 years at that point.

JIM: While pondering a particularly difficult client, one day, the light bulb went on over my, I said, wait a minute, this scale has 1/7 level and this client manifested it perfectly. When I knew it was obvious to me where to insert it, I inserted that level into the six level scale. When I did that, it manifested mathematically.

JIM: As I said, I had a six level scale and I had a realization one day that it had 1/7 level. I could tell you later if you're interested, why I didn't find that level earlier. There's a very specific reason but anyway, I inserted this and it became a seven level scale.

JIM: When it did, it manifested mathematically, all of these data jumped out at me. Now, if you know anything about math, the whole point of math is that you start with an equation or a formula and you coax data out of it. That's how Einstein got E equals MC squared.

JIM: Anybody who knows advanced math and physics can follow that those calculations. It's very specific. No, when I saw that, I said, whoa I don't know what this is but whatever it is, it's natural law because it has mathematics embedded in it like the Fibonacci sequence.

JIM: So then again, in keeping with my engineering mind, I said, I wonder how many of these other scales that I have are actually seven level scales that haven't been developed all the way because I wasn't developing anything. I was just helping my clients and making notes.

JIM: I then observed all of these skills, I inspected them and because I knew what I was looking for in a short period of time, each one went to seven levels and when they did, each one manifested mathematically, it went click. It went from being a scale to a plane. In other words, it was a whole body of data.

JIM: Now let me explain what I mean by that. Sometimes people say, well, what book is your book like and having gone to school for 28 years, I have to say in all candor, I don't think there's ever been a book like this before. But each of these 35 Septemic scales is expressed in what you might call a table or a spreadsheet.

JIM: Each of those tables is comparable to or similar to the periodic table of elements. But for the corresponding subject, 3rd, each of the skills covers a subject. And of course, if I told you the names of the subjects, then you would see the scope of it.

JIM: It's like a periodic table, it's like 35 periodic tables. But instead of being the physical science, it's for these human phenomena. Then I said, wait a minute, I found a new subject here. I tried for years to fit this into some pre-existing context cannot be done. It is a separate subject.

JIM: Now, all of my polymath background sort of figured into how I discovered this, but this is a new and separate subject. Then I said, wait a minute, I can go from helping people by the hundreds, which is what I have been doing as a human development engineer to helping people by the millions.

JIM: If I put this in a book and get it out to the public and let everybody see this and use it cause this is really useful data and it's not hard to understand because it's natural law, for example, most people in industrialized society know about the Pythagorean theorem. Ok?

JIM: Once you see it, you get it, it's not hard to get, you don't forget it easily. It's so obvious once you know what it is, it's with you for life. Ok? And it always works. And that is what this material is like. I absolutely know that these scales are correct. The reason I know is I worked on this book for 25 years.

KATHLEEN: As you were working on the book for this, how did your life change? Were you practicing these principles with yourself? Were you watching your own evolution through this besides just your clients? To be this passionate and yes, it's a lot of mathematics, but there's still an evolution in you that was transpiring.

KATHLEEN: Were you creating how to do this for people to do this on their own as well? Not necessarily a how to, but something that kinda helps people to find where they fit inside those different categories of the 35.

KATHLEEN: I can't remember what you called it now.

KATHLEEN: How are you practicing this for you in your own life?

JIM: Ok. Well, first of all, I have to tell you long before I got the idea of putting this in a book, I was finding this data, as I said, because I was like 20 when I started working with people. Ok?

JIM: Just because I'm, I'm observant person, I started seeing pretty early on that, I could predict with the outcome of the session, I would say, OK, this guy is at this level on this scale. As a result of that, he's gonna go up to the next level, which is this thing and that's what would happen.

KATHLEEN: What about you? Did you see your own evolution as well?

JIM: Well, let me say this. First of all, I have been meditating my entire adult life. Ok, on a daily basis. Over the course of all those decades, it averages out to about an hour a day, which is a lot of meditation.

JIM: I was continually expanding my own consciousness, my own mind, my ability to perceive, keep, stay better and sharper and clearer my mind. My mind is clearer now than it was when I spoke to you yesterday because I meditated today.

KATHLEEN: No, I believe that because meditation was one of the things that got me started in this as far as coming up with my own identity and understanding the mistruths that were told to me when I was a young child.

KATHLEEN: I fully comprehend what you're saying and the clarity that is there. When you had a crossroad in your life, then did you apply those principles or was it the clarity of the meditation that helped you ease through crossroads? Because we all have crossroads in our lives?

JIM: Well, both are true. I mean, the meditation gradually puts you into what I would say relative to Septemtics. It's an upscale position. There are scales so there you can be high on the scale and low on this scale. Without knowing these scales existed, I was pushing myself up these scales. You see.

JIM: You have to realize the common denominator of all the scales is insight when a person is at or near the top of any scale. It's because he's insightful in that area. When a person is at, when you're at the bottom of any scale, it's because he lacks insight in that area.

JIM: Now, there are some people who are generally downscale people and there are some people who are generally upscale people, but most of us are a more or less in the middle and be high on some and low on others. But of course, I told you about my epiphany in 1995 about that I had discovered this material and I had just been seeing it and because it was real to me, I used it continuously.

JIM: I mean using Septemics for me is as difficult as drinking water it's like I know the data is there people tell you their levels. If you watch somebody watch what he does and watch what he says, he will tell you his level on any scale.

JIM: That's how you find the level, you observe the person and the beauty of it is in any one of the 35 scales, you're only choosing from among seven levels. For example, if I stop some guy in the street and say, what's your wife's motivation toward you? He can say, well, how the hell can I know that?

JIM: But you see, there are only seven levels of motivation and all the other ones are subsets of these. So when you only have to choose from amongst seven, it's not that hard. If I show him the scale right away, he'll throw out three or four of them.

JIM: Say, well, it's not that it's not that and, and then I'll say, well, go ahead and read the chapter and then you can get, and he will get it. He'll say, oh, now I see her. She, her motivation to me is this and when he does that, he will have an epiphany. He'll say, oh, that explains why Xy and Z.

KATHLEEN: I get what you're saying and it's almost makes you feel a little scared that oh God, what am I saying? That he's making not a judgment but awareness. How did this help you?

KATHLEEN: Have you had, minimal conflict in your life because of this? You were able to ascertain people and then you knew how to work around their issues to where it's more of an empowering relationship than a dysfunctional type relationship.

JIM: Absolutely. When I was a young man, this material didn't exist. I hadn't discovered it yet. I made the same stupid mistakes that everybody else makes not involved with people. I shouldn't have been involved with et cetera, et cetera.

JIM: But as the years went by that happened less and less and now that does not happen, cannot happen, will not happen because I see what's happening. It's like if I go into your garden, right? Let's say you have a garden, I can say, oh, she's got tulips, she's got hydrangeas, she's got roses, she's got violets, right? Because I know flowers.

JIM: Now some little kid doesn't know anything about flowers. He goes in and sees these pretty things growing. See he can't analyze it because he doesn't have any data. I have all this data and it's not about judgment, it's about understanding, it's about seeing what's there.

KATHLEEN: That will elevate you to that higher level on the scales. Correct?

JIM: Well, the higher you are on the scale, the more insightful you are and the more you use the scales, the more insightful you become. It is a snowball effect where the more you use this material, the more insightful you continually get more insightful.

KATHLEEN: Do you have children? Yes. How did this work with your children? I'm curious of how, I'm sure you must have been an amazing father with that kind of an insight to help them develop a better self-esteem. How did you work with your children on something like that?

JIM: Well, first of all, I should tell you my son is 31. Ok. So, that predates my epiphany about Septemics. I had bits and pieces of this data chunks of it, you know that I knew was right. But I didn't have the concept of Septemics as a subject. basically, as I was growing up, I was writing the book and let me tell you about writing the book because that's interesting in and of itself.

JIM: First, I had to glean the data. I had to discover the phenomena which mostly happened in my sessions. I would see the client go to a certain level and I would make a note of that. You see, and then I have another client who do exactly the same thing. I never told my clients anything, even if they asked me, do you think I should date this girl? Wouldn't answer the question? What do you think?

JIM: See. I would, that was the skill that I had. I used Socratic dialogue, aided by biofeedback to get the person to a higher level where he would have an epiphany. Every single step with every client always ended in a realization that's how we knew we were done.

JIM: You know, he'd be saying, yeah, I can't get along with my brother ba ba ba ba ba ba problem. Then I say, wait a minute, I just realized he's just like my father. No wonder ba ba see. Then I knew we're done with that one. See? Ok, epiphany. We go on to something else. Let me finish telling you about writing the book because that.

JIM: As I said, first, I had to discover the phenomena, this phenomena that apparently nobody had observed before. Most of that was done by 1995 although I did find three more scales. As I was writing the book, then I had to use this data to craft a workable philosophic system that took 20 years.

JIM: You have to realize there are 35 scales each of which has seven levels, that's 245 different levels, each of which had to be verified and perfected. The whole thing had to be constructed in a way that would work. It would make sense because as an engineer, I'm only interested in results and facts, opinions and beliefs are irrelevant to engineering.

JIM: Then the most time consuming aspect of this was expressing this in a way that would make sense to the average reader of English. I know I succeeded at that because I've been seeing the results of this for 27.5 years because the original text was completed in December of 95.

JIM: I sent it out to colleagues of mine, all of whom had graduate degrees in a variety of subjects and they all had different responses, but the responses were distinctly positive. That told me this is exactly what I think it is a new subject that could really help people. That's what motivated me to spend the next 25 years working on that.

KATHLEEN: Do you train people with this or can people, do they need a coach? Is this something they can do on their own?

JIM: Well, I very premeditatedly wrote the book in such a way that once you have the book, you don't need anything else that was in the back of my mind all the time that once you have this book, you don't need to take a class, you don't need to hire a facilitator. You don't need to join a religion. You don't need to spend money.

JIM: It's just you in the book. Now, the only thing you might wanna have is a dictionary. But I would say that for every book in the world having been involved in education my whole life, I would never teach anything to anybody without having a dictionary handy. Because most people don't realize that they don't know the correct meaning of most words.

JIM: I never say to my clients, do you know what this word means? Because 99% of the time they'll say yes, I say, do you know what the word is to Du Lovi means? If I don't get a correct answer in one second, I say, OK, let's look it up and 100% of the time they say, oh, I see. Yeah, because most words have multiple definitions.

JIM: That is actually a problem because people have the correct definition but not for this application. They don't really get it correctly. That was sort of one of my secrets as far as becoming a polymath. The thing that I knew best by the time I had my bachelor's degree was how to study, or you might say how to learn. I continue to do that.

JIM: And I can.

KATHLEEN: Can you tell me what a polymath actually means? Because I really don't know what that term means in relation to you and how you identify yourself as that.

JIM: Ok. Well, first of all, I should tell you, I did not think of myself as a polymath until a few years ago. Ok. I'm just a guy who knew a lot and people would talk to me and say, well, you know, a lot of stuff, don't you? I just thought of myself as a guy who's well read and liked to learn. But a polymath is somebody who is learned in multiple disparate subjects.

JIM: I used to think of myself as a polymath scholar. But then after a while I said, well, really, it makes more sense. It's more truthful for me to say now I'm a polymath intellectual because I knew I was an intellectual and I knew I was a polymath. But somehow I didn't put those two together until a few years ago.

JIM: That's what I am. It sort of defines my personality because my perception of the world is distinctly different from everybody else. I know because when you learn a subject, whether it's physics or psychology or economics or military science, when you learn it, it affects you, it changes your perception, you see things differently because you know this information.

JIM: I have an unusual perspective of the world. I think that's why I was able to see Septemics its when it appeared before me and why I was able to convey it in a way that makes sense to the average reader.

KATHLEEN: You feel that this was a gift and this was your purpose in life was to bring this forward, correct? Or are you too scientifically minded to think like that? Because to me, what you brought is a huge gift to this planet that I don't think anyone else can bring because of your knowledge and all the studying you did and that drive that you had to learn and that you could see it.

KATHLEEN: To see that because this is massive what you've done, right? When I read that one chapter on the website that you put up there I'm going, wow. I get why he's saying that we have to study this because where I could see where I think I was and then what the number seven is, is not necessarily a positive thing, but yet it's a positive thing, but there's also a dark side to it as well.

KATHLEEN: Like how you describe the various leaders and people that were significant in this particular lifetime. Over the last 6000 years and the surprises that you felt with Caesar and Napoleon Bonaparte. I don't know what he's saying there.

KATHLEEN: I can't quite pinpoint it, but I was really trying to understand that. Is there a logical way when you go through this book for you to understand all the scales that you talk about? Because that one chapter I read it and it made sense.

KATHLEEN: But then I got, well, I think I'm a little confused at the same time because I know I didn't have the glossary or anything or the first chapter or anything like that. I understand that. Does it compound itself in the book to bring that kind of clarity? Or can you go ahead and explain that a little bit more? It makes sense. It's fascinating. This is fascinating to me.

JIM: First of all, there is a glossary not only in front of every chapter, even in front of the introduction to the glossary. I'm telling you with specificity, the definition of the words I'm using the names of the 35 scales are defined, the names of the seven levels of every scale are defined.

JIM: There is no ambiguity. For example, there's a scale of communication. Well, somebody could say, well, if you look up the word communication has 30 definitions which one is using. I tell you, I give you one specific definition, the one that fits best and then you know, OK, that's what it is.

JIM: This is all part of a scientific way of approaching things because in this, in the world of septemics, science, technology, engineering, mathematics, everything has to be defined and it is there's no ambiguity, you're not allowed to be ambiguous.

JIM: The type of person who would gravitate toward that is a person who has an unambiguous mind. I wanna know what is the definition? I think it was Descartes who said if you would argue with me, define your terms?

JIM: I would say this, there's probably some spiritual destiny or something beyond my knowledge that resulted in my creating this system, which is for the benefit of mankind. Although, I wasn't aware as I was plodding toward toward it, that's what it was going to be because until it blossomed in front of me, I didn't know what I had.

KATHLEEN: Do you see yourself trying to get this advocated into the educational system somehow? We don't really talk about how to treat each other, how to get along with people, we let the kids do whatever they're doing.

KATHLEEN: This could be such a very powerful empowering tool because everything you talk about is you're constantly empowering your clients. I think this could be something amazing to get into even if it's just a private school to get it out there. Are you advocating for anything like that?

JIM: First of all, as I state in the book, all of the institutions of mankind are corrupt and dysfunctional, the schools are dysfunctional. The banks are dysfunctional. The health care system is dysfunctional. The government are dysfunctional.

JIM: There's nothing on an institutional level that's not dysfunctional. Ok. The education system has been devolving my entire life. Ok? The results are worse and worse and worse. You don't even have people who can read.

JIM: So giving this book to somebody who can't read is a complete waste of time.

JIM: That's not something I'm contemplating. Now, this is something I know I already know from direct observation. Anybody who gets this meaning they read this, they understand that they play, they duplicate it in their minds is going to have an impact on society, whether they realize it, whether they intend it or not because you necessarily are going to use this. For example, there's a scale of scholarship.

JIM: Most people have children and most children have trouble in school. So the dad sees the juniors having trouble. He says junior come here, let me show you something and he shows them the scale of scholarship. Well, the kid's a scholar. He's gonna be interested. He says, you mean there's a scale of scholarship?

JIM: The dad says, yeah, where are you on this scale? You see, and he'll find his level and then when he finds his level, the dad can move him up to the next level up because I have solved the gradient problem. That is has bedeviled mankind for 6000 years. Each of these skills is the gradients. You go from 7 to 5 to 4 to 3 to 2 on across all of them.

KATHLEEN: Ok. We're winding down. How can people get a hold of you Jim?

JIM: Well, I invite your viewers to go to my website, which is sep temic dot com. Se pe TEM I CS where you can see what many readers have said, what many journalists have written, what the reviews are. You can read sections of the book itself and you can listen to a pre-recorded introduction to Septemics. If you do all that, you're probably gonna want to buy the book.

KATHLEEN: I know that I'm very interested in the book of what you've written. It seems very empowering and there's a lot to learn. When you say that this is a study course, it really is going to be a study because it's not an easy read, but it's also a challenge. That's because we're looking inward and grasping things in a different way than we're used to doing it.

KATHLEEN: I'm very excited that you came on the show that you reached out to come out on the show. I really do appreciate that.

JIM: Thank you, Kathy.